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Is the younger generation in Toronto more likely to use transit and will this trend last?

TheTigerMaster said:
Yeah. I probably wouldn't be as content wit the TTC if it weren't for those apps. Those apps make even living along infrequent bus routes a lot more convenient. No more waiting at a stop hoping a bus will show up.
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Hear hear! I too live next to a not-so-frequent bus route as well.
 
Johnny Au said:
I am heavily dependent on transit apps on the smartphone. I always wondered what life was like before they were ubiquitous.
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As a lad in the 1980s, I used to phone the number on the bus stop to see when the next bus was scheduled. Of course, in those pre-cellphone days this required me remembering the number from home. I also think we were more patient. If I waited 45 mins for a bus, well, I'd start walking.
 
Admiral Beez said:
As a lad in the 1980s, I used to phone the number on the bus stop to see when the next bus was scheduled. Of course, in those pre-cellphone days this required me remembering the number from home. I also think we were more patient. If I waited 45 mins for a bus, well, I'd start walking.
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An of course the moment you start walking is the moment the bus passes you by :)
 
TheTigerMaster said:
Yeah. I probably wouldn't be as content wit the TTC if it weren't for those apps. Those apps make even living along infrequent bus routes a lot more convenient. No more waiting at a stop hoping a bus will show up.
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These apps have their limit though. For infrequent routes they are very useful for deciding when to leave the house. But if you're transferring from the subway to one of these infrequent routes, you arrive at a random time and might end up waiting 25 minutes for that bus. Similarly, if you're transferring from a frequent bus to an infrequent bus, you don't have much control over when you will arrive at the second bus stop.
 
I guess a sample of two is hardly significant, but for what it's worth my wife and I are both aging boomers and one of the things we enjoy about visiting cities like London and Paris is the sense of freedom and engagement that taking public transit in those cities affords. We used to take the TTC when we were young and poor, and still do on the extremely rare occasions when it's a better travel option.

I suspect we're not unusual in that we came to value our time more as we got older and less poor. In Toronto that means driving for most trips. I would also guess the same will apply to the current younger generation, unless the TTC is vastly expanded, or driving becomes such a misery that even the Queen streetcar seems like a better way.
 
pman said:
I suspect we're not unusual in that we came to value our time more as we got older and less poor. In Toronto that means driving for most trips. I would also guess the same will apply to the current younger generation, unless the TTC is vastly expanded, or driving becomes such a misery that even the Queen streetcar seems like a better way.
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Odd you say that. I take the TTC because I do value my time. Why should I waste my time driving 20 minutes, when I can do something useful while on a streetcar for 25 minutes - and get some exercise to boot.
 
salsa said:
These apps have their limit though. For infrequent routes they are very useful for deciding when to leave the house. But if you're transferring from the subway to one of these infrequent routes, you arrive at a random time and might end up waiting 25 minutes for that bus. Similarly, if you're transferring from a frequent bus to an infrequent bus, you don't have much control over when you will arrive at the second bus stop.
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Which is why I don't really obey the "no stopover", in such a circumstance. Especially, when we use the smartphone app to see when the bus does arrive, I do a little shopping/banking/get out of the cold or rain.
 
pman said:
I suspect we're not unusual in that we came to value our time more as we got older and less poor. In Toronto that means driving for most trips. I would also guess the same will apply to the current younger generation, unless the TTC is vastly expanded, or driving becomes such a misery that even the Queen streetcar seems like a better way.
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I doubt it. As almost everybody points out, the younger generation has little enthusiasm for driving. It's not a matter of money, it's just not something many of them aspire to anymore. These people don't view having a car as a net positive, they view it as burdensome; the costs/benefits just don't work out. You have to pay for gas, insurance, repairs, tickets, parking, the risks of being on the road, the stress of driving. Many of these young people wouldn't take a car if it were offered to them for free.

Perhaps 18 years of hearing adults whine about driving has scared young people away from cars.
 
TheTigerMaster said:
I doubt it. As almost everybody points out, the younger generation has little enthusiasm for driving. It's not a matter of money, it's just not something many of them aspire to anymore. These people don't view having a car as a net positive, they view it as burdensome; the costs/benefits just don't work out. You have to pay for gas, insurance, repairs, tickets, parking, the risks of being on the road, the stress of driving. Many of these young people wouldn't take a car if it were offered to them for free.

Perhaps 18 years of hearing adults whine about driving has scared young people away from cars.
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Certainly true if you aren't schlepping young children or old parents around and you stay in the core. I wonder if there's any research to suggest that this generation really is different, or if behaviour changes as cohorts age.
 
pman said:
Certainly true if you aren't schlepping young children or old parents around and you stay in the core. I wonder if there's any research to suggest that this generation really is different, or if behaviour changes as cohorts age.
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Yes, there's quite a bit of research behind this. Here's one of many articles: http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-01-06/young-people-less-likely-to-get-a-driver27s-license/6002600

Note that Australia is a highly suburban country. The rates of licensing are certainly significantly lower here in Toronto. I wouldn't be surprised if the rate for persons under 25 were less than 60% here.

The numbers may vary depend on methodology, but the consensus is that across western countries, millennials are driving significantly less than other generations when they were the same age.

Another article: http://www.forbes.com/sites/micheli...s-say-their-teens-arent-driving/#5a3ff0352eb1

Nationally, only about 27 percent of 16-year-olds now get their licenses, compared with 46 percent in 1983. That’s according to federal census and highway administration data.
 
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And more:http://news.nationalgeographic.com/...217-four-theories-why-teens-drive-less-today/

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pman said:
Certainly true if you aren't schlepping young children or old parents around and you stay in the core.
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If you are schlepping young children around the core, the TTC is often easier, as long as you are travelling close to the subway and streetcar corridors; some of the worst driving experience I've had with infants, has been trying to drive and not being able to do anything about them screaming - this is a non-issue on transit, as you can hold and nurse them. By the time they are mobile, they can help carry stuff!

Though for old people, freight, and locations that are not easily transit accessible (such as locations with very infrequent buses that may only come every 10 minutes or so) the car does become useful!
 
It is nice that I have multiple different third party apps that tells me about car shares, bike shares, transit, commuter trains, and Ubers, all or most of the above in one unified app.

A win for Open Data!
 
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