TheTigerMaster
Superstar
This is not an issue with the TTC. It's gov't regulations and environmental factors that result in the increased costs. You see the same issue across the country.
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Is Hume right?
- Thread starter King of Kensington
- Start date
This is not an issue with the TTC. It's gov't regulations and environmental factors that result in the increased costs. You see the same issue across the country.
BurlOak
Senior Member
You do not see it in Vancouver. The Canada Line, 60% underground, was build for $110M / km. Or Montreal, they extended their subway to Laval, completely underground, for $140M /km. It seems it is the TTC, or at least an Ontario problem.
denfromoakvillemilton
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Both these cities are smaller then Toronto. But I agree. And Laval getting the Metro is worse then the RH extension.
spider
Senior Member
That's nice but not very important because obviously too many operators simply ignore it with complete impunity. Which brings us back to the problem of Bunching and how to fix it. Unless the TTC from Byford down commits to a fix with proper penalties for the "old guard" renegades we are wasting our time worrying about it.
LNahid2000
Senior Member
I agree, the TTC is slow. I live literally a 10 second underground walk from Bloor-Yonge Station and I still end up taking my bike most of the time. In 90% of cases I can bike faster than the TTC, and my bike commute is far more predictable than my TTC commute would ever be.
denfromoakvillemilton
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I guess I better invest in a bike when I graduate.
junctionist
Senior Member
Definitely, it's a great way to get around no matter where you are in life.
Riverdale Rink Rat
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Uh, OK. You'd be biking to North York then? The airport? When I lived in RIverdale it was faster for me to walk to East Chinatown, too. It depends on where you're going doesn't it?
ssiguy2
Senior Member
You are being completely Toronto centric. Just because Toronto is incompetent doesn't mean every other city is.
Look at Vancouver's Milllenium SkyTrain line.......from the day it was announced to the day of completion for an 18 km grade separated and high capacity line was 28 months. Toronto wouldn't have been even remotely close to finishing the envirornmental review. The most noteworthy point is that guess who didn't complain?..............the environmental groups.
Why?.........because they knew that it didn't matter what was found along the route wouldn't make any difference. What if they found some concern was irrelevant as it's not like they were going to close down the Lougheed highway. This is the same as Eglinton where a review should be irrelevant as the road is already built. The environment groups knew that the reviews governments undertake almost never have anything to do with concerns but are used as political footballs to stall a project. It's exactly the same as what Ottawa does when it needs a problem fixed...........it doesn't fix the problem but rather does a Royal Commission which takes off the political heat and leaves the problem for the next government. Toronto could fill three floors of Robarts for the number of reviews and studies it's done on the DRL.
This is made worse by the fact that after these make-work project reviews they come out with plans that are undoable and assume that money is no object. The latest example is the latest DRL study which brought the project in at $8 billion. That is an ass backward way to do infrastructure, You set a price and then tell the consultants to work within it. You don't just tell them to create a fantasy network as if money is no object which again takes the heat off the local politicians by them being able to say it's either too expensive or the senior levels of government should pay.
For the $12 billion Toronto has budgeted for rapid transit for Eglinton/Spadina/SRT it should EASILY be able to double it's current subway/Metro system.
It is comical, embarrasing, and downright pathetic how Toronto and the TTC call the SRT an obsolete, expensive technology yet that exact same technology in Vancouver has proven itself to be very very reliable, fast, safe, comfortable, and cost effective to both build and run. Transit "professionals" may talk about how SkyTrain is too expensive and proprietary but while they are giving excuses as to why they should not use it Torontonians are wallowing in a transit system that is coming chugs from station to station, Vancouverites are already at their destination.
LNahid2000
Senior Member
If my destination in North York wasn't directly on the Yonge line, I probably would bike to North York since it would be faster than taking the TTC. And I only go to the airport a couple of times per year.
fiendishlibrarian
Active Member
You're actually pretty close to the mark there, sad to say.
AlvinofDiaspar
Moderator
Not that the current EA system is perfect, but it should be noted that the Millenium Line project started really started in 1998 (and the planning before that in 94).
http://www.bcauditor.com/files/publications/2001/report2/report/transportation-greater-vancouver.pdf (p. 17 of PDF)
In the context of Toronto as a stump line it is exactly that.
AoD
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Jonny5
Senior Member
Oh please.
Electrify
Senior Member
To quickly jump in, take a look at how long it takes for them to fix, let alone install, an escalator or elevator.
I think comparisons to the private sector are overplayed, but why does it take the TTC a year to do what any other organization takes a week to complete?
This includes other government buildings.
I think comparisons to the private sector are overplayed, but why does it take the TTC a year to do what any other organization takes a week to complete?
This includes other government buildings.
TheTigerMaster
Superstar
This is really something you'll need to ask somebody at the Commission. But I suspect it may have something to do with costs savings. For example, it would be cheaper for the TTC to start a project at a certain date and stagger the work over time as funding becomes available rather than taking out a loan and doing the work at one time. This is also one of the reasons why Metrolink's transit projects are being started over several years rather than building it all at once.
This is just speculation though. There are dozens of other answers that are just as plausible. But I have little reason the think the TTC stretches out projects just to waste time.