neubilder
Banned
It's almost like a gated community with towers instead of bungalows, and twenty-somethings instead of sixty-somethings. Equally homogeneous and equally segregated.
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Is CityPlace Toronto’s next ghetto?
- Thread starter Solid Snake
- Start date
Ramako
Moderator
Its "segregation" from the rest of the city is a matter of circumstance, being that the whole area is wedged between the tracks and the Gardiner. I can hardly fault Concord for that.
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hawc
Senior Member
Liberty Village is much more 'gated' and cut off then CityPlace. And show me a community that isn't homogenous to a large extent. That's what makes it a 'community' it has a definable element.
someMidTowner
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
I spend lots of time in cityplace and find it to be a very well integrated part of the city, especially considering it isn't even finished. Also i live pretty much at the corner of Avenue and Lawrence so i agree with your comments about that area as well. A good neighbourhood doesnt have to be built and planned old fashioned and by the books
jn_12
Senior Member
I think it goes without saying that Cityplace needs to be complete before it can be judged in the same way we shouldn't judge how good the aquarium will be when it's barely halfway completed. I'd argue it's doing well right now considering it is incomplete and as the library gets built and the connection to Bathurst is completed, along with the opening of the rail bridge, I think it has a good future ahead of it. Is it how I would have built a community? No, but I have many of the same criticisms for it as I have for the TIFF building or a number of other condos that supposedly are well integrated into the urban realm (though I would highly disagree). But, as someone who lives on the fringe of City Place and uses its stores and streets and parks on a daily basis, it's not even close to feeling like a taller suburban Oakville.
As for the bridge between these two buildings, I actually find it a bit gimmicky.
As for the bridge between these two buildings, I actually find it a bit gimmicky.
neubilder
Banned
That's really a stretch.
innsertnamehere
Superstar
I reserve judgement on cityplace until it is completed. there are still 5 blocks that are incomplete, and half of Fort York blvd is still closed, with only 1 of 3 future access points to the community open. when all 5 blocks are done, the streets all open, the retail all leased, the tenants all moved in, and the access points being used, I will make a judgement.
Torontovibe
Senior Member
Yes, that's the point hawc seems to not understand. We can build DOWNTOWN districts that give nothing back to the city or we can build new areas that make Toronto an even grater city. Given the option to do either, why would we not build great mixed use areas to expand the downtown core and help animate it? Go to any great city in the world and you'll see how it works. The point is, we only have a few rare opportunities to improve our downtown core and Cityplace did not take it. As an isolated neighbourhood, it's fine but as a downtown district, it fails.
Do we want to be just a big city or a great city?
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Red October
Senior Member
You absolutely cannot judge CityPlace as a "neighbourhood" until it's been given time to develop into one. Something this big that's brand new and still half under construction isn't going to turn into the Annex tomorrow.
CityPlace is way too over-criticised for the wrong reasons.
CityPlace is way too over-criticised for the wrong reasons.
wang888
Active Member
Cityplace isn't ghetto at all. Where the thugs at? It isn't home to crime nor bums.
Wrenkin
Active Member
That's not necessarily what ghetto means. I'm not sure that the student ghetto in Kingston has a large homeless population, but that doesn't mean it's a model to replicate.
AlvinofDiaspar
Moderator
I don't think it is a "ghetto" - but I think we have seen enough to judge that it isn't going to be quintessentially "urban" - the land use and built form is pretty much fixed for the next, oh 30 years. Adding a few more towers and opening a road won't change that.
AoD
AoD
Thanos
Active Member
Nothing really special about that. Calgary has an extensive skyway system and many blame it for ruining the street life. Nobody needs to walk outside.
adma
Superstar
The one thing CityPlace'll really need is a TTC bus along Bremner...
neubilder
Banned
Physical separation is no excuse. The best districts within the most interesting cities are often separated by bridges, rivers etc. These separations offer an opportunity for unique diversity and richness to develop - an opportunity which was decidedly designed out of cityplace. Instead it's comprised of big dull buildings topped with jazzy coloured boxes - rigid building types that offer almost no opportunity for richness to develop. They embody as much intricacy and diversity as a residential street in a design-controlled subdivision, only scaled up 100x. The only opportunities for 'messing up' or adapting the stiff typologies are temporary tents and such, for events. Roughly the equivalent of a kid setting up lemonade stand in the suburbs. The so-called diversity afforded by the 'flexible zoning' of the townhouses will add little or no interest to the place, even over time. (It's not the first time this has been tried in this way). Cityplace is not Marrakesh, so to suggest it could be diverse is a moot point - it wouldn't be tolerated.
And none of this was an accident. Concord wanted to get in and out as fast as possible and with as little hassle as possible. Zero commitment to city building. You want a little bit of proof? Alan Vihant, one of the heads of Concord tried to weasel out of even building the pedestrian bridge: http://www.thestar.com/article/234584--a-bridge-too-much
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