If Toronto Ever Gets the Olympics, What Woult It Mean for the Transport System?

[Haljackey]

If Toronto Ever Gets the Olympics, What Would It Mean for the Transport System?

If Toronto ever wins an Olympic bid, what would that mean for the transportation system?

Transit:

-I could see the full completion of the Shepard subway line and possibly an extension even further west than the Spadina line.

-The Bloor-Danforth subway line would get extended in both directions, possibly reaching the Hurontario LRT in the west and replacing the Scarborough RT (and extensions) in the east.

-Northern expansions of the Yonge-University-Spadina subway line

-A new downtown subway (downtown relief line), probably running along Queen Street.

-Refurbishment of the Young Subway section and modernization of nearly all subway stations, along with some capacity upgrades and aesthetic features.

-New, more modern looking streetcars to give Toronto a '21st Century' look. They could be articulated and look like the new Toronto Rocket subway trains.


Highways:

-Rehabilitation of the Gardiner, repainting the elevated section and replacing that rusting guardrail towards the 427.

-HOV/BRT Lanes on the DVP, possibly requiring 4 persons per vehicle to increase carpooling.

-The gap on Highway 401's collector-express system between Highway 427 and 409 could get filled.

-Various widening and reconstruction of the 400-series would take place, including building more HOV lanes.

-A new highway somewhere in the region, which could be built in the Gatineau hydro corridor or the Bradford Bypass. Mid-pen probably wouldn't be built.


What else?

 

[EnviroTO]

It completely depends on where the facilities would be located. If 2008 had been won I think the Spadina extension would already have completed, the SRT would be replaced by subway, GO would have a Cherry Street and King Street @ Atlantic stations, more all-day GO service and the airport rail would probably already be here, and maybe a DRL would be started. The new streetcars are already on order so we don't need an Olympics for that. I do agree that they might fix the interiors of the existing stations for an Olympics though so the media wouldn't grab pictures of the roof in St.Andrew for example. I don't think improvements would occur well away from the venues though, unless there was someone like Tony Clement was running the show and putting in parks in downtown Nowheresville for the Olympics.

 

[Mulder]

If Toronto ever wins an Olympic bid, what would that mean for the transportation system?

Transit:

I hate to play the bad guy here, but what you are proposing would tally more than 30 billion in upgrades and expansions.
A more realistic total would probably be about 8-10 Billion if Toronto were to get the Olympic games.

Also put in perspective that the earliest possible for a potential host is 12 years 6 months from now. So some of these upgrades may already be completed before Toronto is even selected as a candidate city.

-I could see the full completion of the Shepard subway line and possibly an extension even further west than the Spadina line.

I don't see any benefit dollar wise for the city/province to connect University line to Sheppard/Expand Sheppard west otherwise before then.
Considering Sheppard east is already in the works also, this plan will pretty much be completed before then.
That 4 km stretch from Younge Street to Downsview station will probably wait until we host the Olympics and be touted as "the final completion" of the Sheppard line. Despite maybe only costing just over a billion to complete.

-
-The Bloor-Danforth subway line would get extended in both directions, possibly reaching the Hurontario LRT in the west and replacing the Scarborough RT (and extensions) in the east.

I'm not completely sure about expanding west. That will be venue dependant.
Pretty much the same for the east, Maybe to Markham Road. It's hard to envision the Subway going to UOFT Scarborough anytime soon. However that would make an excellent termination point.

-

-Northern expansions of the Yonge-University-Spadina subway line

Younge sections are already planning up to Highway 7. May be underway, before the bid, if not it would only be sped up.

I don't see why they would expand the University section then it's current planned terminus for the games.

-
-A new downtown subway (downtown relief line), probably running along Queen Street.

We can keep our hopes up here for the DRL, but it's not going to happen. Even if the games come here. This by far would be the most expensive project

-
-Refurbishment of the Young Subway section and modernization of nearly all subway stations, along with some capacity upgrades and aesthetic features.

Very likely, I thought this was already in the plans.

-

-New, more modern looking streetcars to give Toronto a '21st Century' look. They could be articulated and look like the new Toronto Rocket subway trains.

New street cars are already being built.

-
Highways:

-Rehabilitation of the Gardiner, repainting the elevated section and replacing that rusting guardrail towards the 427.

Hence the reason all the "what do we do with the Gardiner" threads are coming out is because it is nearing the end of the designed lifespan. I imagine a full rehabilitation of the raised structure would take quite sometime, and cost billions as well. The fate of the Gardiner however may be decided much sooner than if Toronto put forth a bid for the games.

-
-HOV/BRT Lanes on the DVP, possibly requiring 4 persons per vehicle to increase carpooling.

No way it goes to 4 per vehicle. They need to fix the on-ramps/off ramps southbound first, and if there is room expand to 4 full lanes down to Eglinton.

I've always thought a sunken 2 lane highway that follows the hydro corridor and connects to the 401 near Morningside may remove tons of traffic issues. It won't fix 404 northbound, but may prevent the DVP being backed up to queen during rush-hour and stop the 401 from being backed up from DVP to wherever as well.
A study would be needed. We'll see!

-
-The gap on Highway 401's collector-express system between Highway 427 and 409 could get filled.

No real incentive is there? There may be no room, and i'm pretty sure they just expanded that section as well?

-
-Various widening and reconstruction of the 400-series would take place, including building more HOV lanes.

Highway planning is no easy task, All I see with this is any projects that may be in the works just expedited. Anything with the tag "complete by 2030" may just be changed to 2024 assuming we won those games. Again, with all the work being planned with the "complete by 2020" date. There will be new tasks and challenges after that.

-

-A new highway somewhere in the region, which could be built in the Gatineau hydro corridor or the Bradford Bypass. Mid-pen probably wouldn't be built.

Cool! I'm not the only one who thinks that hydro corridor may be a decent place for a highway!

-
What else?

Venue dependant.

You have to look at what projects you know will be completed by then and say, Do we need to expand it?

Examples
404 to Keswick will be completed by 2012.
427 to Major Mac sometime by 2017 I assume.
407E will be completed to 35/115 with both Durham east and West links by 2020.
401 to 4 lanes though Oshawa.

 

[Haljackey]

Ah thanks I'm not from Toronto but was thinking many of these projects could be completed by the time Toronto may host the Olympic Games.

I believe the widening of Highway 401 through Oshawa is part of the 407 East project, which will see the route widened to Highway 35/115 in order to have the capacity to support the two new connecting freeways.

Another huge project: a big-dig for the Gardiner. Although I doubt this will ever happen, even if Toronto gets the Olympics. All those tourists and international media will be forced to look at that ugly elevated structure, no matter how well we patch or paint it.

 

[ssiguy2]

It certainly would be good news for Bombardier.

 

[Mulder]

Ah thanks I'm not from Toronto but was thinking many of these projects could be completed by the time Toronto may host the Olympic Games.

I believe the widening of Highway 401 through Oshawa is part of the 407 East project, which will see the route widened to Highway 35/115 in order to have the capacity to support the two new connecting freeways.

I'm not sure if the plans are related, or if it would go under the same project for the 407.
Though that area they are shifting 401 between Brock Road and Brock Steet to the north and plans call for the express/collector system to run though there with 12 lanes. Nothing futher east than Brock Street is planned. As far as I know.

 

[andrewpmk]

Ah thanks I'm not from Toronto but was thinking many of these projects could be completed by the time Toronto may host the Olympic Games.

I believe the widening of Highway 401 through Oshawa is part of the 407 East project, which will see the route widened to Highway 35/115 in order to have the capacity to support the two new connecting freeways.

Another huge project: a big-dig for the Gardiner. Although I doubt this will ever happen, even if Toronto gets the Olympics. All those tourists and international media will be forced to look at that ugly elevated structure, no matter how well we patch or paint it.

Making the 401 collector-express as far as Whitby AND the 407 extension? That is bound to just cause massive amounts of sprawl in Durham Region, especially if there aren't similar improvements to transit like more frequent GO service and better Durham Region Transit bus service. The 407 extension ought to eliminate the need for 401 widening. Not to mention that a lot of houses along the north side of the 401 through Ajax and Whitby would have to be expropriated to widen the highway.

A Gardiner Expressway tunnel will never happen due to the prohibitive cost. Other cities like Tokyo have lots of elevated expressways (those most of them were built after the 1964 Olympics) and make do with them.

 

[Amy Rose]

I know its not the same thing, but isn't Toronto to host the 2015 PanAm games?

 

[Haljackey]

When the 407 was built, many of the interchanging highways were widened to handle the increased connecting traffic. The 401 will be widened to handle the traffic from the two new 407 East connectors.
-Although I believe it will only be by a lane or two each way. I would assume 10 lanes to the West Durham Connector and 8 lanes to the East Durham Connector, maybe 8 lanes to the 35/115 sometime later on.
-The full collector-express system extension to Brock Street is another study not part of the 407 East project.

Making the 401 collector-express as far as Whitby AND the 407 extension? That is bound to just cause massive amounts of sprawl.

Let me tell you that new freeways do not necessarily encourage sprawl. I live and London and we're one of the most sprawled, spread-out cities in Canada and we don't have any highways intended for local traffic. (The 401 and 402 are for long-distance travelers bypassing the city.)

I know its not the same thing, but isn't Toronto to host the 2015 PanAm games?

Yes, and that's one of the reasons why projects like the subway and 407 extensions are taking place, along with the airport rail link.

 

[andrewpmk]

When the 407 was built, many of the interchanging highways were widened to handle the increased connecting traffic. The 401 will be widened to handle the traffic from the two new 407 East connectors.
-Although I believe it will only be by a lane or two each way. I would assume 10 lanes to the West Durham Connector and 8 lanes to the East Durham Connector, maybe 8 lanes to the 35/115 sometime later on.
-The full collector-express system extension to Brock Street is another study not part of the 407 East project.

Let me tell you that new freeways do not necessarily encourage sprawl. I live and London and we're one of the most sprawled, spread-out cities in Canada and we don't have any highways intended for local traffic. (The 401 and 402 are for long-distance travelers bypassing the city.)




Yes, and that's one of the reasons why projects like the subway and 407 extensions are taking place, along with the airport rail link.

In big cities like the GTA, freeways definitely encourage sprawl. Especially if the GO train on the Lakeshore East line gets no significant upgrades and continues to run hourly service, which is a complete joke. Obviously London isn't growing very fast, so sprawl caused by freeways is a non-issue there, whereas Durham Region has a horrible sprawl problem. Widen Highway 401 -> traffic improves -> new subdivisions and business parks get built in Durham Region -> traffic gets worse again. We don't want Durham Region to end up like Mississauga, which has four east west freeways and terrible traffic on all the free ones.

 

[Mulder]

Making the 401 collector-express as far as Whitby AND the 407 extension? That is bound to just cause massive amounts of sprawl in Durham Region, especially if there aren't similar improvements to transit like more frequent GO service and better Durham Region Transit bus service. The 407 extension ought to eliminate the need for 401 widening. Not to mention that a lot of houses along the north side of the 401 through Ajax and Whitby would have to be expropriated to widen the highway.

I don't think your seeing the whole picture with that area.
in 5 KM from Brock, Traffic goes from a 6 lane express/collector system to 3 lanes. Just before where the 407 West Durham Link is going to go.

People who still drive to work anywhere downtown Toronto are not going to take the 404 North to the 407. Esp during Rushhour. Infact the 407 will still more remain a Toronto by-pass.

Another thing is the proposed Pickering Airport. If or when it gets built. Lots of Traffic will be funneled that way as well.

In big cities like the GTA, freeways definitely encourage sprawl. Especially if the GO train on the Lakeshore East line gets no significant upgrades and continues to run hourly service, which is a complete joke. Obviously London isn't growing very fast, so sprawl caused by freeways is a non-issue there, whereas Durham Region has a horrible sprawl problem. Widen Highway 401 -> traffic improves -> new subdivisions and business parks get built in Durham Region -> traffic gets worse again. We don't want Durham Region to end up like Mississauga, which has four east west freeways and terrible traffic on all the free ones.

Service levels outside rush hour don't require more than hourly service yet. I don't think Pickering/Oshawa parking lots could handle much more as well. Oshawa during Rush hour was the second longest i've probably waited to get out of a Parking lot, Only to Ottawa's Scoitabank Place.

Widen Highway 401 -> traffic improves -> new subdivisions and business parks get built in Durham Region -> traffic gets worse again. We don't want Durham Region to end up like Mississauga, which has four east west freeways and terrible traffic on all the free ones.

Sadly, what you say here is the way public infrastructure works, that's also why we build to future capacity based on studies and traffic needs. I beleive MTO is usually happy if the LOS (Level of Service) exceeds an F one day a month.
If you don't know what that is read here

http://www.mto.gov.on.ca/english/engineering/417ea/traffic/analysis.shtml#table6-1

 

[GTS]

I think it would mean all-day two-way train service between the Hamilton's Hunter/James St GO station and Union station. The overpass just west of this downtown Hamilton station would finally be rebuilt to accomodate the more frequent two-way train service.

 

[innsertnamehere]

DRL and younge improvements. possibly the extension of the eglinton line to the airport.