Highway 401 Transit and Auto Tunnel

[Adjei]

Draft major projects list not good enough for Ontario, Ford says

The Premier says he discussed the potential infrastructure projects with the Prime Minister

www.theglobeandmail.com

I don’t know why Ford keeps pushing this useless fantasy to be included in the list of projects of national interest . Instead of pushing for the Alto high speed line which is included to be extended to Windsor, he keeps doubling down on this tunnel.

 

[afransen]

Assuming this thing actually breaks ground, which I would never bet money on. What are y'alls thoughts on the transit in this tunnel taking the form of something like koreas GTX line A ? Ultra rappid underground commuter train from pickering to missauga, with stops at major transit hubs in between, including the airport.

There is literally nothing to be gained from putting transit, be it subway, whatever, in that tunnel. The tunnel is not the expensive part of subways. It's the stations, and a rail line with stations under two levels of highway will have very complex, difficult to access stations. I expect it would be cheaper to build a separate subway than to try to build a meaningful number of stations in such a tunnel.

A GTX/HSR express train that runs from what, Pearson to STC or Pickering and only has stops at the existing RT lines it crosses, like 2x Line 1, Line 2, Barrie and Kitchener and Stouffville Lines?

 

[Bordercollie]

There is literally nothing to be gained from putting transit, be it subway, whatever, in that tunnel. The tunnel is not the expensive part of subways. It's the stations, and a rail line with stations under two levels of highway will have very complex, difficult to access stations. I expect it would be cheaper to build a separate subway than to try to build a meaningful number of stations in such a tunnel.

A GTX/HSR express train that runs from what, Pearson to STC or Pickering and only has stops at the existing RT lines it crosses, like 2x Line 1, Line 2, Barrie and Kitchener and Stouffville Lines?

The Finch ALRT solves the problem. Or build a real BRT system with dedicated lanes. You would need to tunnel under the road at every intersection but that's a perfect place to build a station.

 

[rbt]

Ontario Premier Doug Ford says he believes Prime Minister Mark Carney will back his idea for a tunnel under Highway 401 through the Greater Toronto Area.

Ford made the comments today [Sept 16th] at the International Plowing Match, an annual expo that celebrates agriculture and rural living.

When asked if Carney has given him any direct assurances about that project, Ford said he just believes it will happen.

...

Ford believes Carney will designate Highway 401 tunnel as 'national interest' project - Daily Commercial News

TORONTO — Ontario Premier Doug Ford says he believes Prime Minister Mark Carney will back his idea for a tunnel under Highway 401 through the Greater Toronto Area. Ford made the comments today at the International Plowing Match, an annual expo that celeb

canada.constructconnect.com

 

[toronto647]

...

Ford believes Carney will designate Highway 401 tunnel as 'national interest' project - Daily Commercial News

TORONTO — Ontario Premier Doug Ford says he believes Prime Minister Mark Carney will back his idea for a tunnel under Highway 401 through the Greater Toronto Area. Ford made the comments today at the International Plowing Match, an annual expo that celeb

canada.constructconnect.com

Ford seems pretty confident that the 401 tunnel will be included in the project.

Ontario Line was deemed to be a fantasy project that the NDP / Liberals said would never be build. Funny to see whose laughing now. This will likely happen for the 401 tunnel. Ford has another 4 years to get this project of the ground.

 

[Amare]

...

Ford believes Carney will designate Highway 401 tunnel as 'national interest' project - Daily Commercial News

TORONTO — Ontario Premier Doug Ford says he believes Prime Minister Mark Carney will back his idea for a tunnel under Highway 401 through the Greater Toronto Area. Ford made the comments today at the International Plowing Match, an annual expo that celeb

canada.constructconnect.com

This fantasy...erm i mean "project"... isnt even in the municipal best interests of the city it's being proposed for.

I assure everyone that nobody in Canada gives a flying yahoo about this joke of a proposal.

 

[toronto647]

This fantasy...erm i mean "project"... isnt even in the municipal best interests of the city it's being proposed for.

I assure everyone that nobody in Canada gives a flying yahoo about this joke of a proposal.

thats what everyone in Canada said about the Ontario line tho

 

[micheal_can]

Ford seems pretty confident that the 401 tunnel will be included in the project.

Ontario Line was deemed to be a fantasy project that the NDP / Liberals said would never be build. Funny to see whose laughing now. This will likely happen for the 401 tunnel. Ford has another 4 years to get this project of the ground.

He is serious about it?
No, seriously, he actually thinks it is a good solution?

thats what everyone in Canada said about the Ontario line tho

The DRL has always been something that has been pushed for decades. It has always had some merit.

 

[RapidTransit]

Ford needs to appeal to his car loving base. Even the 401 widening isn't good enough for Ford Nation.

If Ford was more open to having another expressway parallel to the 401, and not being fixated on just the tunnel it would help his credibility. It would show that he's looking at other options to alleviate traffic in the GTA or the 401. I think more people would take it seriously and be more willing to bring in ideas.

But to have decade long construction project underneath the busiest highway is asking for it to be cancelled by any means necessary. And that's not including the cost and the eventual cost ballooning.

I actually hope Carney declines this request by Doug. That way Doug can either focus on other alternatives for the 401. Or he can look like a lame duck on the issue. The Sheppard line could save face if Carney declines. Which could be the blessing in disguise and a alternative.

 

[Thaboss]

actually hope Carney declines this request by Doug. That way Doug can either focus on other alternatives for the 401. Or he can look like a lame duck on the issue. The Sheppard line could save face if Carney declines. Which could be the blessing in disguise and a alternative

Let's pray this is just a way for ford to get a "deal" for the feds to give him money for a subway or go electrification and expansion in return he drops the stupid 401 talk..

 

[toronto647]

He is serious about it?
No, seriously, he actually thinks it is a good solution?


The DRL has always been something that has been pushed for decades. It has always had some merit.

Not debating the merits of tunnel, just saying people were laughing at his "crayon / marker drawings on a napkin" for transit lines and lots of people were laughing at him saying it is not realistic. Well now his napkin paper drawing is being built and considering he is office until Mid 2029, these projects will be to late in the process to be cancelled or changed materially.

Regarding your DRL comment, the media and others on this forum were saying the ontario line was not feasible to be built and doesn't have merit compared to the actual DRL. Well I guess that ship has sailed and we are getting the OL in the same shape and form Ford proposed it as.

 

[TwoWheelPoli]

...

Ford believes Carney will designate Highway 401 tunnel as 'national interest' project - Daily Commercial News

TORONTO — Ontario Premier Doug Ford says he believes Prime Minister Mark Carney will back his idea for a tunnel under Highway 401 through the Greater Toronto Area. Ford made the comments today at the International Plowing Match, an annual expo that celeb

canada.constructconnect.com

For the sake of this country, Mark Carney and his Liberal government must IMMEDIATELY shut down the idea of any funding for Doug Ford's $100B vanity project!

 

[innsertnamehere]

For the sake of this country, Mark Carney and his Liberal government must IMMEDIATELY shut down the idea of any funding for Doug Ford's $100B vanity project!

this will be expensive but nothing close to $100 billion. Probably more like $20 billion.

If you want a $100 billion project, go look at ALTO High Speed Rail.

 

[CapitalSeven]

this will be expensive but nothing close to $100 billion. Probably more like $20 billion.

If you want a $100 billion project, go look at ALTO High Speed Rail.

Oh ya? Well, the Scarborough Subway extension is about 8 km with three stations and the bill is now about 10 billion. Fantasy Four!Oh!One! is 7.5 times as long. It's supposed to have a transit line in the bottom. Let's say that has 10 stations, which are about 40 meters below and 50 to 500 meters laterally from the intersections and/or transit lines they connect with. And that's just the transit. The road tunnel has to have at least five interchanges, largely underground, which change grades up to 30 meters, avoiding watercourses and arterial roads.

All this for twice the cost of the SSE? That's not optimism, that's magical thinking.

 

[innsertnamehere]

Oh ya? Well, the Scarborough Subway extension is about 8 km with three stations and the bill is now about 10 billion. Fantasy Four!Oh!One! is 7.5 times as long. It's supposed to have a transit line in the bottom. Let's say that has 10 stations, which are about 40 meters below and 50 to 500 meters laterally from the intersections and/or transit lines they connect with. And that's just the transit. The road tunnel has to have at least five interchanges, largely underground, which change grades up to 30 meters, avoiding watercourses and arterial roads.

All this for twice the cost of the SSE? That's not optimism, that's magical thinking.

First - you are assuming it's 7.5 times the length. We have no idea about the project length. There are simply too many variables and we have been provided literally zero details. If you inflate the scope of the project massively, maybe you can get it closer to $100 billion, sure..

The recently completed WestConnex project in Sydney dug a 6-lane motorway tunnel the equivalent length from the 427 to 404 for $20 billion AUD.

We need to know more. MTO is studying the central 401 corridor to review capacity expansion options - that does not inherently mean a 55km tunnel with 10 rapid transit stations. Could the scope end up as you describe? maybe. But I think it's unlikely. You are probably more likely to see a project run from the 427 to 404 or so, with the claimed transit tunnel connecting a bit further to existing lines and probably costing over half the total project budget to include.