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Heintzman Place (Options for Homes) - Real Estate -

I looked closely at several properties there about 5 years ago. They are in identical condition today. So's the area. Go ahead and waste your money there- I'll put mine to better use elsewhere.

FYI Roncy is a brisk walk from the subway. This 'hood is more isolated and surrounded by noxious industrial use.

So, what you're saying is that you've never been to the area? A quick MLS online search is not the same as actually visiting the area.

And by the way, the distance from Wright Ave and Roncesvalles (the centre of roncey, realistically) to Dundas West Staion is 1.3KM according to google maps. Keele and Dundas is 1.2KM to Keele Subway station...a slightly shorter "brisk" walk.

Do you even live in Toronto?
 
So, what you're saying is that you've never been to the area? A quick MLS online search is not the same as actually visiting the area.

And by the way, the distance from Wright Ave and Roncesvalles (the centre of roncey, realistically) to Dundas West Staion is 1.3KM according to google maps. Keele and Dundas is 1.2KM to Keele Subway station...a slightly shorter "brisk" walk.

Do you even live in Toronto?

never been to mcbride cycle when I was 18...never banked at the TD a few blocks west of Keele for 12 years..never shopped at the Canadian Tire that's being demolished...never been to the funeral home on Annette (unfortunately)...never seen street walkers shivering to death in February...


Good luck man. My sympathies to your accountant.
 
I get the feeling that.....

The Junction is in fact changing and becoming more desirable a location to live in. My brother use to live in the area and his friend still does. He hears from the friend that the area is going through a transformation. So whether some like it or not, it's happening.
 
Options for Homes architecture from an aestetic point of view has been progressively becoming blander from the first few Distillery co-operatives however with the involvement of Tridel's subsidiaries, the quality (for the price) and management is top notch. AFAIK, They were able to switch over to building condos a few years ago when new sources of financing became available as co-operatives usually self-finance through the sales of the "shares" (whatever they're called)
Options has never built co-operatives. The confusion is understandable because a co-operative is formed to develop the condo; it's dissolved once the project is complete.
 
My main question is why they're marketing these condos as "village by high park"--i can see high park from my balcony but never go there (a tired, ugly boring place frequented by new Russian immigrants who dominate the tennis courts etc:( ); imagine living on Dundas St and that much further away--not High Park at all.
I go to High Park for, well, the park -- to walk the paths through the ravines and oak savanna. I would probably have preferred the park before it was "improved" with recreational facilities, roads, and non-native landscaping, but I'm grateful that such an oasis exists in the urban core. High Park was a major factor in my decision to move to the area, and to buy a condo at The Village in the General Vicinity of High Park.
 
never been to mcbride cycle when I was 18...never banked at the TD a few blocks west of Keele for 12 years..never shopped at the Canadian Tire that's being demolished...never been to the funeral home on Annette (unfortunately)...never seen street walkers shivering to death in February...


Good luck man. My sympathies to your accountant.


So, it's just been a while since you've been to the Junction then. You really should check it out these days.
 
ADMA, I suspect you've never ventured a dollar of your mental disability wage. If and when you do, I'd be happy to direct you to a better opportunity than the donkey porn sites that you probably frequent on a regular basis.

Seriously - what developments do you see as worth looking at, from an investors POV?
 
Seriously - what developments do you see as worth looking at, from an investors POV?

In my opinion (which appears to be the minority here) buying property that does not provide positive cash flow immediately or in the foreseeable future is a huge mistake. Virtually any condominium investment in Toronto today wouldn't qualify based on $400 per square foot cost and $2 per square foot per month gross rent which I also believe is aggressive- $2000 per month for 1000 square foot apartment.

I also recognize most condos purchased in the last 5 or 6 years have seen steady appreciation and can very likely be sold for a profit on original cost. However, once the carrying costs are factored in (years of negative cash flow and commissions and fees) I believe that the actual realized returns were probably not commensurate with the risks involved (market risk, illiquidity, superior returns in REIT units, etc.) and certainly not going forward with the giant supply bubble on the horizon. Buying people condos today are utilizing the greater fool theory- something that I don't personally advise in illiquid investments like real estate.

Condos are great to live in and appreciate from a resident's perspective. In my opinion, they are not desirable investment vehicles owing in large measure to the illiquidity of the asset. Get a few friends together and buy a 6-plex. You can probably still get positive cash flow from those babies and you can add value by self-managing it.
 
So, it's just been a while since you've been to the Junction then. You really should check it out these days.

I will definitely do that RH- nothing would please me more than being mistaken about this area. I would love to see if flourish and be revitalized.
 
Even better, there's the cool nabe built around the junction shul.
http://www.jewishtorontoonline.net/home.do?ch=content&cid=1755

The area North of Dundas is grittier, older and more interesting; I'd consider buying a house around Maria St--what could be more Victorian than hearing the trains rumble by at night?

I live near Keele and Bloor St but often walk up to the No Frills @Pacific and Dundas St West. 14 minutes with grocery cart. That's 3 songs on the ipod. Wow scary, eh?

Dundas has some cool used bookstores. Otherwise, I find the new trendy restaurants overpriced except for the local Blackjack Grille burger joint on Keele--the best burger in town as discussed in another thread! There's a few interesting bakeries but I'll admit I usually am up there to grocery shop. During the summer walking around St John's Rd/Annette/Runnymede/Jane/Babypoint is a refreshing change from my old Annex/Queen West/Little Italy haunts of old. I never realized how beautiful hilly and windy roads existed west of Keele St until this summer.

But, Investor is probably right--there's something cursed about the junction that makes me skeptical it will ever be totally gentrified like Roncevalles; at best, it may become like Parkdale--some hipster cafes/restaurants but mostly a working class retail strip. Fine by me although at night it can be a bit creepy if you're single, female, or paranoid.

My main question is why they're marketing these condos as "village by high park"--i can see high park from my balcony but never go there (a tired, ugly boring place frequented by new Russian immigrants who dominate the tennis courts etc:( ); imagine living on Dundas St and that much further away--not High Park at all.

Off topic I know, but I'm curious in your opinion UD, why the retail stretch from Dundas to Keele is so sleezy still. Despite the appeal of the area and the emergence of the Roncy scene, that strip still appears to be rundown and lacks any real positive momentum.

Am I mistaken? Has it improved since I last visited it?
 
Off topic I know, but I'm curious in your opinion UD, why the retail stretch from Dundas to Keele is so sleezy still. Despite the appeal of the area and the emergence of the Roncy scene, that strip still appears to be rundown and lacks any real positive momentum.

Am I mistaken? Has it improved since I last visited it?


Obviously it's no Bloor West Village or anything, but I've been visiting the area regularly over the past few months, and every time I go it seems like things are getting nicer. New restaurants are opening up, galleries, cool shops, etc...

Now magazine recently named the Junction as the "Best Up and coming Retail Strip in Toronto", in their November "Best of Toronto" issue.

I posted this article in the Junction forum on this site (it goes into detail about one of the businesses in the area and about how the area has changed recently): http://www.thestar.com/article/286723

Article:

Forever Interiors' attitude: Reuse, recycle, rejoice

Andrew Wallace / toronto star
Forever Interiors’ Martin Scott is so green, says Rita Zekas, that he rivals Shrek. His Dundas St. W. store has been open for just over two years. Email story


Dec 22, 2007 04:30 AM
Rita Zekas
Living reporter

We hadn't been to The Junction, that outback at Dundas and Keele, since 2001, when we visited the set of the musical film Call Me Irrepressible starring Jason Priestley, whom we dubbed a "song-and-pants man" because of his inflated, draping, vintage trousers.

Film-location people tend to gravitate to The Junction for its seedy, somewhat disreputable vibe. Now it's going the way of Parkdale and getting gentrified.

Shops like Forever Interiors at 2903 Dundas St. W., headquarters for recycled furniture, decor and antiques, and Cornerstone at 2884 Dundas St. W., 40,000 square feet of fine furniture and antiques, are springing up among the quickie cash-your-cheques places.

Throw in a Starbucks and Whole Foods and watch the yup-and-comers congregate.

Forever Interiors' owner Martin Scott bases his business on reclaimed wood. Harvest tables are made from recycled wood, including old structural beams and ultra-wide roof boards. Custom-designed cabinets evolve out of a combination of salvaged furniture and reclaimed wood.

He's almost Shrek green.

We are captivated by a school of whimsical wooden fish in a variety of colours and species on the walls. "I cut them out and local artists paint them," Scott says. "...I get old tin that I use for the fish (fins) from a demolition guy in a truck."

At $34.99, they are irresistible and ideal for last-minute gift giving. "Somebody from a film wanted to rent 10 fish for a trailer park," Scott recalls, offended, "and I said, `No way.'"

Designers, movie-location scouts, movie people and regular folk make their way to Scott's shop.

"I get spillover," he says.

Rachel McAdams, who was in the area filming Time Traveler's Wife, bought one of his popular shelves with the vintage coat hooks priced from $39 to $99 and made from old roof boards.

McAdams is also tapping him for furnishings for her T.O. home.

Scott depends on "bike guys," pickers on bicycles who ride around the area sifting through the garbage for broken items that he makes into new furniture.

The bike guys are not kids.

"Chester shocked the life out of me," Scott recalls. "He said he'd be 60 years old in a week. He spends 12 hours every day on a bike and supplies me and other people."

Scott took a huge old door and made it into a hallway bench on which to sit while taking off your shoes. It's all found wood, with the door on one side, floorboards on the other and storage underneath. All that for $249.99.

He'll take old five-foot-high mirrors that are refuse from apartment buildings or renos, attach them to old floor boards from century homes and price them at $195 to $395.

Scott sells church pews from the neighbouring Victorian Presbyterian church for $350. "The church was converted (no pun intended) into lofts," he says.

There is a magnificent armoire with a "sold" sticker marked at $4,900. "A moving company called me up (offering it)," Scott says. "It's not old – only 15 years old – but it costs $17,245 regularly."

What is totally gob-smacking is a coffee table top made from a bowling alley floor that Scott obtained in collaboration with The Post and Beam Reclamation Ltd., several stores down at 2869 Dundas W. The Post and Beamers deal in reclaimed architectural materials and have been known to go all the way to Argentina to buy a church door, but the door is such a work of art, it's almost a religious experience.

"They said, `C'mon, let's grab the wood' (from the bowling alley) and I helped them," Scott recalls. "They sell the raw material, I sell the finished products. If I'm lucky, maybe one of those bike guys will come by with a base for the table."

Forever Interiors has been open for just over two years. Before that, Scott worked in marketing for a mid-sized software company. He was downsized.

He is not necessarily artsy-craftsy, he demurs. "I learned right here," he explains. "My brother is a real estate agent and we reno'd houses. I sold my house and it became my stock. Then my brother bought a house under construction and it all ended up being in the store."

A 100-year-old trunk priced at $195 bears a sign proclaiming, "Been to China and back." A trunk underneath it says, "Don't know where it's been" and sells for $65.

Scott's price points are moderate: A pair of wooden candleholders is $7.50; a baker's table, metal with enamel paint, is $149; a great vintage floor ashtray is $65; a wonderful hobby horse is $58; lamps and chandeliers go from $27 to $87; a charming birdhouse is $35; and picture frames are $12 and up.

"Art dealers come in and clean me out of frames," Scott says. "There is an art school around the corner."

To replenish stock, Scott goes to garage sales, content sales and auctions. "And people call me up now," he adds.

His client base includes some of the people in the 'hood, though they tend to stay put after dark. It is still somewhat dodgy, after all, and it gets dark before 5 p.m., when most people are still at their primary work stations, though Scott can be found toiling away in his shop renovating.

"This is a very professional neighbourhood," Scott explains. "The problem is, they (customers) don't come to the street. We need coffee shops and produce stores. We need comfy, cozy places to hang out in the evenings."

His philosophy is to steadfastly stay forever old.

"The only thing new is the idea," he says. "It's as simple as one, two, three. One: nails. Two: screws. Three: glue."
Edit/Delete Message
 
As much as I abhor investor's gaseous snobbery, I'd have to say, these "have you seen the Junction lately?" beckonings to him are inane, indeed. Look. What you say is gonna draw him in, ain't gonna draw him in, it ain't enough to draw him in, and you don't need pricks like him, either. At most, you're jumping the gun by a decade or so.

And investor, get this straight: it's perfectly all right for a sensible person to feel that a neighbourhood's neat to visit or even live in without being overly, hyperactively concerned about your version of "positive cash flow immediately or in the foreseeable future". So maybe they're not your type; big deal, vamoose. After all, if most every "sensible" person held your ideal vision, the Junction would be as terminally bombed-out and desolate as parts of Detroit. Say what you will about those who are committed to the Junction; at least their "naivety" (by investor standards) is a reason it hasn't, and won't ever, sink to Detroit levels. Your attitude IOW is the death of all-around healthy urbanism--it only creates insular "investment zones" surrounded by terminal no-go hellholes. (You'd be a real miserable pill on a psychogeographic walk.)

That said, I agree that this project is getting more and more mediocre (wasn't KPMB involved in the early stages, or was that something else?), and right now I can see this turning out kinda like a 30-40-years-later version of The Crossways, demographically speaking. Then again, The Crossways hasn't exactly destroyed *its* neighbourhood, not that there isn't much immediate "neighbourhood" to speak of...
 
Investor, my thoughts on why the junction still isn't happening and still kinda seedy may be deemed politically incorrect, but like Bill Maher I'm gonna say it anyway;)

1. Cheap (and sometimes poor) immigrants. They love shopping at No Frills, dollar stores and Payday loan joints. There's loads of them from various formerly poor Eastern and Southern European countries. Some own houses around the area and grew up out of the disaster that was post WW2 Eastern Europe. The kids gone, they rent out rooms to new immigrants from the "mother" country--from Ukraine, Russia, Portugal, South America, Africa, wherever.

2. That silly law only struck down about 10 years ago not allowing liquor licenses--many property owners, small shop keepers etc simply abandoned the area to whomever would take the storefront--often no one. This stigma takes decades to overcome.

3. Toronto is a small town. There is only so much money to spread around at hip shops, cafes etc. There aren't many Euro-centric "hipster" entrepreneurs in Canada/Toronto willing to spend the long hours required to make a small retail shop succeed anymore. There are new immigrants willing to do this, but often they go the easy route--aka chain franchises. The Subways, Money Mart's etc of this world.

4. Toronto is an emerging city. Many different immigrants have different styles of shopping, loyalties etc that haven't really "assimilated" into one common goal--eg, turning the junction into a happening retail strip.

5. First comes the yuppies with their baby strollers (it's amazing I see more and more of these everytime I walk up the streets north of Annette), once the house bills seem under control these yuppies (and they are mostly white European heritage middle class folks--a disappointing trend I am noticing across Toronto south of Lawrence, but not surprising since the "established" folks tend to know more about nabes, history, appreciate "old" buildings etc) then comes demand. Sbux, and all the other yuppy essential shops will come.

6. The area needs more artists willing to open galleries--for some reason this "small town" is obsessed with Queen St W=artist friendly when in reality, cheap rent retail is available along Dundas St from Bathurst to Jane streets.

7. Absentee landlords. Where are the caring passionate landlords? Abandoned store fronts--why?

8. Better transit access? Well it's really okay but those ugly Toronto transit buses look so tired.... (K-W's GRT transit has those cool sleek Nova buses--improves the idea of taking public transit imho.)

9. Lazy, un curious Torontonians. So many young people from North Toronto spend hours patronizing Queen St W, K-market on week-ends are totally ignorant or even scared of anything beyond Bathurst St. The world needs more curious Sagittarians like me, eh?!

10. The shul I mentioned (haven't been in it myself) is kinda abandoned and rundown looking. Surprising considering its history; but not surprising since many Jewish shopkeepers, workers etc that once owned factories, shops and worked in the area fled for North Bathurst. This left a gaping hole that combined with the above points resulted in a "dead" gritty zone. It's a sensitive issue, but someone's gotta say it, right?

Investor, what sayeth thou in reply? Am I on the right track?



Things are improving going forward but I'd say give it 10-15 years to become totally safe and middleclass. 100 years from now, the new immigrants of today will be taking over these nabes--i hope--and continue to evolve....blah blah blah.
 
And investor, get this straight: it's perfectly all right for a sensible person to feel that a neighbourhood's neat to visit or even live in without being overly, hyperactively concerned about your version of "positive cash flow immediately or in the foreseeable future".

I love ya adma, but as an investment which is the topic of at least this page, investor couldn't be more right.
 
With apologies to the yuppies, immigrants have strongly contributed to Roncesvalles. The delis, restaurants and cheap corner grocers aren't recent establishments.

The thread is as much about people who will be living here than investors, so I think adma is on topic.
 

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