Hipster Duck
Senior Member
Hayden is going to be quite the canyon in a few years.
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Hayden St. & Haydn, you know, the Composer
- Thread starter Hipster Duck
- Start date
urbandreamer
recession proof
But will it ever be Grand...like Franz Joseph Haydn?
ProjectEnd
Superstar
/\ Its probably more likely that he played on a grand...
He still was pretty grand though!
He still was pretty grand though!
Mongo
Senior Member
^ Definitely... I have a copy of a list of 'Great Composers' with point values given for their importance and impact in each of 18 divisions of classical music. When all these points are totaled up, Mozart is a clear number one, but Beethoven and Haydn are tied for second place.
Oh, what the heck. Here's the list of composers (with more than 20 points):
By the way, 'Nationalist' does not mean political nationalism, but instead means that the composer incorporates that nation's 'ethnic' or folk music into his compositions.
55 Mozart, Wolfgang Amadeus (1756-1791) Austrian -- Viennese Classical
41 Beethoven, Ludwig van (1770-1827) German -- Late Viennese Classical
41 Haydn, Franz Joseph (1732-1809) Austrian -- Viennese Classical
39 Brahms, Johannes (1833-1897) German -- Middle German Romantic
38 Handel, Georg Frideric (1685-1759) German-British -- Late English Baroque
36 Bach, Johann Sebastian (1685-1750) German -- Late German Baroque
35 Schubert, Franz (1797-1828) Austrian -- Post-Classical
32 Tchaikovsky, Pyotr Il'yich (1840-1893) Russian -- Late Russian Romantic
30 Mendelssohn, Felix (1809-1847) German -- Early German Romantic
29 Dvorak, Antonin (1841-1904) Bohemian -- Late German Romantic / Czech Nationalist
29 Prokofiev, Sergei (1891-1953) Russian -- Neoclassical to ~1935; Neoromantic thereafter
27 Bach, Carl Philipp Emanuel (1714-1788) German -- Pre-Classical
27 Bartok, Bela (1881-1945) Hungarian -- Hungarian Nationalist
27 Schumann, Robert (1810-1856) German -- Early German Romantic
27 Vivaldi, Antonio (1678-1741) Italian -- Late Italian Baroque
26 Villa-Lobos, Heitor (1887-1959) Brazilian -- Brazilian Nationalist
25 Milhaud, Darius (1892-1974) French -- French Neoclassical
25 Stravinsky, Igor (1882-1971) Russian-French-American -- Russian Nationalist to 1924; French Neoclassical 1924-1951; Serial thereafter
24 Debussy, Claude (1862-1918) French -- Impressionist
24 Elgar, Edward (1857-1934) British -- Late English Romantic
24 Hindemith, Paul (1895-1963) German -- German Neoclassical
24 Liszt, Franz (1811-1886) Hungarian-French-German -- Middle German Romantic
24 Ravel, Maurice (1875-1937) French -- Impressionist
24 Strauss, Richard (1864-1949) German -- Late German Romantic
23 Faure, Gabriel (1845-1924) French -- Late French Romantic
23 Hovhaness, Alan (1911-2000) American -- Neoromantic
23 Telemann, Georg Philipp (1681-1767) German -- Late German Baroque
22 Poulenc, Francis (1899-1963) French -- French Neoclassical
22 Saint-Saens, Charles-Camile (1835-1921) French -- Late French Romantic
22 Shostakovich, Dmitry (1905-1975) Russian -- Neoromantic
21 Britten, Benjamin (1913-1976) British -- Neoclassical
21 Kreneck, Ernst (1900-1991) Austrian-American -- Expressionist to ~1925; German Neoclassical ~1925-~1934; Serial thereafter
21 Martinu, Bohuslav (1890-1959) Bohemian -- French Neoclassical
21 Purcell, Henry (1658-1695) British -- Middle English Baroque
21 Sibelius, Jean (1865-1957) Finnish -- Late Romantic (and Finnish Nationalist to ~1900)
21 Vaughan Williams, Ralph (1872-1958) British -- English Nationalist
21 Weber, Carl Maria von (1786-1826) German -- Post-Classical
20 Francaix, Jean (1912-1997) French -- French Neoclassical
20 Harrison, Lou (1917-2003) American -- Experimentalist / Exoticist
20 Nielson, Carl (1865-1931) Danish -- Late Romantic to ~1913; increasing Neoclassical tendencies thereafter
Bill
Oh, what the heck. Here's the list of composers (with more than 20 points):
By the way, 'Nationalist' does not mean political nationalism, but instead means that the composer incorporates that nation's 'ethnic' or folk music into his compositions.
55 Mozart, Wolfgang Amadeus (1756-1791) Austrian -- Viennese Classical
41 Beethoven, Ludwig van (1770-1827) German -- Late Viennese Classical
41 Haydn, Franz Joseph (1732-1809) Austrian -- Viennese Classical
39 Brahms, Johannes (1833-1897) German -- Middle German Romantic
38 Handel, Georg Frideric (1685-1759) German-British -- Late English Baroque
36 Bach, Johann Sebastian (1685-1750) German -- Late German Baroque
35 Schubert, Franz (1797-1828) Austrian -- Post-Classical
32 Tchaikovsky, Pyotr Il'yich (1840-1893) Russian -- Late Russian Romantic
30 Mendelssohn, Felix (1809-1847) German -- Early German Romantic
29 Dvorak, Antonin (1841-1904) Bohemian -- Late German Romantic / Czech Nationalist
29 Prokofiev, Sergei (1891-1953) Russian -- Neoclassical to ~1935; Neoromantic thereafter
27 Bach, Carl Philipp Emanuel (1714-1788) German -- Pre-Classical
27 Bartok, Bela (1881-1945) Hungarian -- Hungarian Nationalist
27 Schumann, Robert (1810-1856) German -- Early German Romantic
27 Vivaldi, Antonio (1678-1741) Italian -- Late Italian Baroque
26 Villa-Lobos, Heitor (1887-1959) Brazilian -- Brazilian Nationalist
25 Milhaud, Darius (1892-1974) French -- French Neoclassical
25 Stravinsky, Igor (1882-1971) Russian-French-American -- Russian Nationalist to 1924; French Neoclassical 1924-1951; Serial thereafter
24 Debussy, Claude (1862-1918) French -- Impressionist
24 Elgar, Edward (1857-1934) British -- Late English Romantic
24 Hindemith, Paul (1895-1963) German -- German Neoclassical
24 Liszt, Franz (1811-1886) Hungarian-French-German -- Middle German Romantic
24 Ravel, Maurice (1875-1937) French -- Impressionist
24 Strauss, Richard (1864-1949) German -- Late German Romantic
23 Faure, Gabriel (1845-1924) French -- Late French Romantic
23 Hovhaness, Alan (1911-2000) American -- Neoromantic
23 Telemann, Georg Philipp (1681-1767) German -- Late German Baroque
22 Poulenc, Francis (1899-1963) French -- French Neoclassical
22 Saint-Saens, Charles-Camile (1835-1921) French -- Late French Romantic
22 Shostakovich, Dmitry (1905-1975) Russian -- Neoromantic
21 Britten, Benjamin (1913-1976) British -- Neoclassical
21 Kreneck, Ernst (1900-1991) Austrian-American -- Expressionist to ~1925; German Neoclassical ~1925-~1934; Serial thereafter
21 Martinu, Bohuslav (1890-1959) Bohemian -- French Neoclassical
21 Purcell, Henry (1658-1695) British -- Middle English Baroque
21 Sibelius, Jean (1865-1957) Finnish -- Late Romantic (and Finnish Nationalist to ~1900)
21 Vaughan Williams, Ralph (1872-1958) British -- English Nationalist
21 Weber, Carl Maria von (1786-1826) German -- Post-Classical
20 Francaix, Jean (1912-1997) French -- French Neoclassical
20 Harrison, Lou (1917-2003) American -- Experimentalist / Exoticist
20 Nielson, Carl (1865-1931) Danish -- Late Romantic to ~1913; increasing Neoclassical tendencies thereafter
Bill
Urban Shocker
Doyenne
That's hilarious. Who on earth put that team list together?
I was horrified a couple of nights ago when I heard John Gallagher, the former sports announcer, trying to pronounce the names of classical composers, conductors and musicians on Classical 96.3 FM's late night music programme. At first I thought it was a joke, but Moses Znaimer really has done the equivalent of Caligula appointing his horse to the senate!
I was horrified a couple of nights ago when I heard John Gallagher, the former sports announcer, trying to pronounce the names of classical composers, conductors and musicians on Classical 96.3 FM's late night music programme. At first I thought it was a joke, but Moses Znaimer really has done the equivalent of Caligula appointing his horse to the senate!
salvius
Active Member
That's perhaps a bit much.
adma
Superstar
Towered
Senior Member
Well, that explains why I saw that troll at the Andre Rieu concert in December...
Still off topic, but Mongo, would you please post the source for that list? I want to send its author a threatening* letter.
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*hollow threats only, I can assure you. Well, really, I just want to know more about how the list has been all messed up.
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*hollow threats only, I can assure you. Well, really, I just want to know more about how the list has been all messed up.
Urban Shocker
Doyenne
Poor old Shosty. Only 22 points, behind Milhaud. What is this, block voting in the Eurovision Song Contest?
I spit on Milhaud and fart in his general direction!
And Villa-Lobos with 26 points, ahead of Debussy and Elgar? C'mon. This is insanity!
And the great Purcell, with a measly 21 points, neck and neck with someone called Kreneck? Who, pray, was Krenek and what did he ever write that anyone living or dead has ever heard?
I spit on Milhaud and fart in his general direction!
And Villa-Lobos with 26 points, ahead of Debussy and Elgar? C'mon. This is insanity!
And the great Purcell, with a measly 21 points, neck and neck with someone called Kreneck? Who, pray, was Krenek and what did he ever write that anyone living or dead has ever heard?
Mongo
Senior Member
This is definitely going OT; I would not be surprised if these posts end up in General Discussions.
All I have is a document from several years ago. I have long since forgotten where I copied it from, and ten minutes Googling has failed to come up with the site.
The 18 categories of classical music on my document are:
ORCHESTRA
Symphony Orchestra (large)
Stage Orchestra (medium)
Standing Orchestra (small)
ORCHESTRA & INSTRUMENT(S)
Keyboard Instrument & Orchestra
String Instrument & Orchestra
Other Instrument & Orchestra
Multiple Instruments & Orchestra
CHAMBER MUSIC
Chamber Music: Five to Nine Players
Chamber Music: Four Players
Chamber Music: Three Players
Chamber Music: Two Players
SOLO INSTRUMENT
Solo Piano
Solo Non-Piano Keyboard Instrument
Solo Non-Keyboard Instrument
STAGE
Ballets
Operas & Operettas
VOCAL / CHORAL
Sacred Vocal / Choral Music
Secular Vocal / Choral Music
For each category, the composer was rated as follows:
3 - considerable significant work in that category
2 - some significant work in that category
1 - minor work in that category
0 - no work in that category
I had awarded points on the basis of 3 points for a '3' and 1 point for a '2', with no points for a '1' or a '0'.
In addition, the total volume of the composer's lifetime body of work was rated on the document as 'small', 'moderate', 'large' or 'huge', and I awarded 1 point for 'small', 2 points for 'moderate', 4 points for 'large' and 7 points for 'huge'
For example, Mozart had the listing 333-3333-3333-322-23-33 'huge body of work', which gives 55 points (15x3 points plus 3x1 points plus 7 points = 55 points)
The top 9 composers, using that point system:
55 points 333-3333-3333-322-23-33 'huge body of work' Mozart, Wolfgang Amadeus
41 points 332-3302-3333-310-23-32 'large body of work' Beethoven, Ludwig van
41 points 322-2332-2332-330-02-33 'huge body of work' Haydn, Franz Joseph
39 points 303-3302-3333-320-00-33 'large body of work' Brahms, Johannes
38 points 023-3223-2331-030-03-33 'huge body of work' Handel, Georg Frideric
36 points 003-3323-2222-033-00-33 'huge body of work' Bach, Johann Sebastian
35 points 322-0200-3333-301-02-33 'huge body of work' Schubert, Franz
32 points 333-3300-2222-200-33-22 'large body of work' Tchaikovsky, Pyotr Il'yich
30 points 333-3302-2222-220-01-32 'large body of work' Mendelssohn, Felix
The other composers mentioned in the above posts:
26 points 222-2222-2222-203-22-22 'huge body of work' Villa-Lobos, Heitor
25 points 222-2222-2222-222-22-22 'huge body of work' Milhaud, Darius
24 points 023-2120-0223-302-23-03 'moderate body of work' Debussy, Claude
24 points 223-0322-2212-220-12-32 'large body of work' Elgar, Edward
22 points 322-2202-2322-200-22-02 'large body of work' Shostakovich, Dmitry
21 points 032-0010-2220-020-03-33 'large body of work' Purcell, Henry
21 points 222-2222-2222-222-12-22 'large body of work' Kreneck, Ernst
This system is not perfect, of course, but in my opinion it at least allows composers who are not 'famous' to be directly and impartially compared with the more well-known composers.
Bill
Hipster Duck
Senior Member
Wait a minute...I didn't start this thread. What gives?
Urban Shocker
Doyenne
Sybil?
Well, when your post engendered an off-topic tangent, a whole new thread was born, and why not?
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H
Hydrogen
Guest
Seems to be a very popular approach to art these days (and the stuff that presently stands in for art).