RedRocket191
Senior Member
No problem. I'm pretty sure I've voided the warranty on my brain by thinking at this temperature.
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Hamilton All Day GO Service
- Thread starter denfromoakvillemilton
- Start date
No problem. I'm pretty sure I've voided the warranty on my brain by thinking at this temperature.
Long Island Mike
Senior Member
Hamilton/Niagara service increase and improvements...
Everyone: It is good to see that headway is being made to increase GO Rail service to Hamilton but there are some problems
like having two main rail stations - reopening the former CN station or a new facility nearby to serve Hamilton on thru Niagara
Falls trains meaning two separate GO stations serving central Hamilton because of the route - the former TH&B station is by far the better station for location and other amenities compared to the former CN station area N of downtown Hamilton.
I noticed the Welland Canal bridge is a problem due to its age and that ships do have priority-I wonder if there could be something worked out in which certain prime commuting or rail travel times can be accomodated without delaying ship traffic...
I think a new high-level fixed bridge would probably be the least costly way to allow train and ship traffic to go about noting that a tunnel may actually be better but much more expensive and replacing and not renovating the WC bridge is the key here...
I am all for increased rail service to Hamilton and the Niagara Peninsula and hopefully these problems can be at least eased...
LI MIKE
Everyone: It is good to see that headway is being made to increase GO Rail service to Hamilton but there are some problems
like having two main rail stations - reopening the former CN station or a new facility nearby to serve Hamilton on thru Niagara
Falls trains meaning two separate GO stations serving central Hamilton because of the route - the former TH&B station is by far the better station for location and other amenities compared to the former CN station area N of downtown Hamilton.
I noticed the Welland Canal bridge is a problem due to its age and that ships do have priority-I wonder if there could be something worked out in which certain prime commuting or rail travel times can be accomodated without delaying ship traffic...
I think a new high-level fixed bridge would probably be the least costly way to allow train and ship traffic to go about noting that a tunnel may actually be better but much more expensive and replacing and not renovating the WC bridge is the key here...
I am all for increased rail service to Hamilton and the Niagara Peninsula and hopefully these problems can be at least eased...
LI MIKE
W. K. Lis
Superstar
The height of a bridge would have to about the same height of the Garden City Skyway, 37.5 metres or 123 feet at its highest. However, while the Skyway is about 5.6 km (3.5 miles) in length, a railway bridge to the same height would be longer. The steeper the incline, the longer the slope or incline (and therefor the bridge) is needed.
A tunnel would not have to go down as deep, so would then length of the incline would be shorter. However, then they have to be aware of the water table, when they do so. Sump pumps would be required.
jwill
Active Member
Not much can be done about having the two stations. The TH&B station (currently Hamilton's GO terminal) is on a CP mainline that sees lots of traffic, and is reached from a single track tunnel under Hunter St. All day service here would require a rebuild of the tunnel, which would be difficult while maintaining CP's freight operations. Even then, there will be a lot of conflicting traffic on this line, unless somebody wants to pay for a CP freight bypass around the south end of the city.
And finally the old TH&B line goes south from Hamilton toward Welland, missing St. Catharines and Niagara Falls. So a service extension to Niagara will almost certainly need to go via the James North station. Unless of course somebody wants to make a big investment to connect the CP and CN lines somewhere in east Hamilton before the CP line climbs the escarpment. Not likely though.
The James Street Station is not in an ideal location, but its not terrible either. Its not more than a 10 or 15 walk from downtown, and can be well connected by bus (and LRT eventually) to other points in the city. It might even spur some development in the north part of downtown, and give the James North neighbourhood even more vitality.
And finally the old TH&B line goes south from Hamilton toward Welland, missing St. Catharines and Niagara Falls. So a service extension to Niagara will almost certainly need to go via the James North station. Unless of course somebody wants to make a big investment to connect the CP and CN lines somewhere in east Hamilton before the CP line climbs the escarpment. Not likely though.
The James Street Station is not in an ideal location, but its not terrible either. Its not more than a 10 or 15 walk from downtown, and can be well connected by bus (and LRT eventually) to other points in the city. It might even spur some development in the north part of downtown, and give the James North neighbourhood even more vitality.
CDL.TO
Moderator
However, at the point where the rail line crosses the Welland Canal, the rail line is also climbing the Niagara Escarpment. Building a tunnel would require extremely long approaches as the line would have to overcome both the elevation change of the escarpment as well as the additional elevation change of the tunnel.
The location is part of what makes this location such a challenge and so expensive.
nfitz
Superstar
The answer for the short and medium term surely is rail to St. Catharines, and express buses meeting the train to travel to points on the east side of the canal.
Long Island Mike
Senior Member
The height of a bridge would have to about the same height of the Garden City Skyway, 37.5 metres or 123 feet at its highest. However, while the Skyway is about 5.6 km (3.5 miles) in length, a railway bridge to the same height would be longer. The steeper the incline, the longer the slope or incline (and therefor the bridge) is needed.
A tunnel would not have to go down as deep, so would then length of the incline would be shorter. However, then they have to be aware of the water table, when they do so. Sump pumps would be required.
WKL: Thanks for the picture and thought - a high-level fixed bridge would have to be built with a span height like the Garden City Skyway to accomodate ships and would require viaducts on both sides or at the very least embankments...
A tunnel would mean having to deal with the water table below and the soil might not be good to build a tunnel thru...and we can not forget the Niagara Escarpment hillside itself that makes the Welland Canal necessary and would have to be considered in any new project to replace the WC rail bridge...LI MIKE
DC83
Senior Member
Support West Harbour (Downtown) Stadium
The development of the West Habour lands, which would eventually have new condos connected by walkway to James North GO Stn, depends on Federal, Provincial & Municipal dollars to clean up the contaminated brownfield steps from the Station. This would also be the site of our Pan Am/Tiger Cats stadium.
PLEASE help us convince Hamilton City Council that the West Harbour, downtown, location is the only option (over the East Mountain, suburban location).
Sign the online petition an get tons of info here: http://ourcityourfuture.ca/
The development of the West Habour lands, which would eventually have new condos connected by walkway to James North GO Stn, depends on Federal, Provincial & Municipal dollars to clean up the contaminated brownfield steps from the Station. This would also be the site of our Pan Am/Tiger Cats stadium.
PLEASE help us convince Hamilton City Council that the West Harbour, downtown, location is the only option (over the East Mountain, suburban location).
Sign the online petition an get tons of info here: http://ourcityourfuture.ca/
Komiksulo
Active Member
Here's a thought... EMUs can clinb steeper grades, right? What about using the Skyway itself? Widening it or giving over lanes to rail?
If GO switches to EMUs, doesn't that give them greater flexibility in choosing routes for new lines because they can be lighter and steeper?
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denfromoakvillemilton
Senior Member
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DC83
Senior Member
Thanks, I really appreciate it!
If you check out near the end of this video (@ 5:10) you can see some plans for connecting the GO to our proposed A-Line LRT
[video=youtube;Ww0VMSs6vvA]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww0VMSs6vvA[/video]
denfromoakvillemilton
Senior Member
Member Bio
- Joined
- Apr 30, 2008
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- 7,453
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- 1,516
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- Downtown Toronto, Ontario