GO Transit: Service thread (including extensions)

[crs1026]

Michael Lindsay, speaking this morning at the Mx Board meeting very thoroughly went over what happened in the USRC incident last week.

Short version, a number of lag screws failed and were sheered off due to fatigue, the rail was out by 1 and 1/8th inches causing the derailment. Lots more detail to be had though, including info on a problematic finding that the number of screws required at some locations to keeps the rails working as they should was 1/2 what it was supposed to be.

A very forthright and articulate explanation, both on the USRC incident and also preceding remarks re Lines 5 and 6.

Full credit to Michael Lindsay for this one. The contrast to Phil Verster couldn't be more profound.

PS: Lag screws are indeed track fasteners, on major trackwork such as switches and curves it's common to use screws rather than track spikes to give greater strength in all planes of movement.

Whatever gaps in track inspection practices this revealed are hopefully being corrected.

- Paul

 

[smallspy]

By lag screws, does he mean spike in the ties? cc @smallspy @crs1026

Lag screws may be correct in this context.

If the track's structure is configured to use Pandrol Clips or E-clips to hold the rail in place, than the plates will use lag bolts to secure them to the ties rather than spikes. I can't recall if track 3 is configured like this, but there certainly are some tracks in the USRC that are.

Dan

 

[Metroscapes]

By lag screws, does he mean spike in the ties? cc @smallspy @crs1026

As per the track standards I posted earlier, I believe it's referring to the "screw spike" that, as per "Spiking Pattern E", needs to be at all four corners of the plate, in addition to the clips.

Out of curiousity, I looked a couple of these up in the MTS.

• "Effective immediately, all curves within the Union Station Rail Corridor must have a weekly walking curve inspection compliant with MTS 15.6.2."
• View attachment 713159
• "Spiking pattern in conformance of requirements in Appendix R of the Metrolinx Track Standards including rolled plates conforming with Spiking Pattern E."
• View attachment 713157
• Tie Conditions per Section 9, clause 9.1.15 and 9.1.16 of the Metrolinx Track Standards (MTS).
• View attachment 713158

 

[nickphilipson]

I believe they were on the website though - and if I remember correctly were the ones that were posted on the map inside the GO Train coaches.

Fair enough - and I'm somewhat agnostic. I just find the current scheme more intuitive, and don't think anything is gained by going to an arbitrary letter.

I can see a case for having a letter (or number), but unlike subway lines, GO train lines are very identifiable by a single destination.

I suppose you could go with something like W, E, K, M, B, S, and R. Or something like OS (BM? ) and HA for LE/LW.

But it all seems to be very obvious and clear right now. I don't think it becomes clearer or more obvious than changing it.

I can see that if we get to the proposed 8-station UP line, I'd guess we may be seeing a rename. It would hardly be Express anymore. Heck, it would be more metro-like and maybe we could call it Line 7? (or mayble Blue 37 ).

Whatever they might change it to, I think they need to get rid of the line names as the first indicator on digital boards. They could even keep the two-letter bullet instead of going A-G lettering - but they need to highlight the actual destination of the train first e.g. |KW| Bramalea instead of |KW| Kitchener ... then the stops. It makes way more sense, and will be super helpful for Express trains and branched service as well. If the Kitchener line has a branch to Cambridge for example, it can still be |KW| Cambridge rather than having a different line name.

Below just makes no sense IMO

 

[legoswmonkey]

Would be a much better standard given the number of different services. Frequently have to stop and stare at these boards for half a minute while they cycle through all the stops to see if the LW is terminating at Appleby, Aldershot, Hamilton, West Harbour, Confederation, or Niagara Falls.

 

[nfitz]

The Trillium is a digital publication geared to politicians, QP journalists, lobby groups, political insiders, and the like and is not geared for general audiences like newspapers. Sometimes they do publish articles free to the public (and can be very informative!) and often partner with mainstream news outlets who will report on the Trillium’s work. That’s why the prices are the way they are.

That’s said, if you’re going to post an article link, especially to a paywalled site, it’s good to include a short summary.

Whatever they might change it to, I think they need to get rid of the line names as the first indicator on digital boards. They could even keep the two-letter bullet instead of going A-G lettering - but they need to highlight the actual destination of the train first e.g. |KW| Bramalea instead of |KW| Kitchener ... then the stops. It makes way more sense, and will be super helpful for Express trains and branched service as well. If the Kitchener line has a branch to Cambridge for example, it can still be |KW| Cambridge rather than having a different line name.

Below just makes no sense IMO




View attachment 715012

Having the destination more clear would help. But I really find the line names useful myself - especially when travelling on different routes than usual.

 

[Dan416]

I think they could remove the number of coaches. It's useful when you're on the track, I suppose, but I don't think it needs to take so much real estate on the signs, cuz when you're waiting for it to cycle through all the stops, it's kind of annoying. Luckily I'm mostly taking the Milton train, which literally has no variation, but Lakeshore West does and when I need to get to Port Credit, not every train stops there.

 

[nfitz]

I think they could remove the number of coaches. It's useful when you're on the track, I suppose ...

I used that to effect earlier this week when I caught a (rare for me) Kitchener train, and being in the York concourse with 20 minutes to spare, it said it was only 6 coaches, so I made sure that I used the Bay concourse when it was time to board, because of the short train. The number of coaches doesn't add much real estate.

 

[Dan416]

I used that to effect earlier this week when I caught a (rare for me) Kitchener train, and being in the York concourse with 20 minutes to spare, it said it was only 6 coaches, so I made sure that I used the Bay concourse when it was time to board, because of the short train. The number of coaches doesn't add much real estate.

I'm a regular GO rider, and even I wouldn't know to board at the Bay concourse instead of the York concourse for a 6 coach train. That would be more useful information than saying it's a 6 coach train. Though that would take up more space on the board. I still think that would be more useful at track level than at the waiting area.

And I am still extremely annoyed by the lack of departure boards when you walk into Union from the subway station. They should be there as soon as you walk in, and not have to wait until you get up to the Bay and York concourses. There's no Presto machines on that level either, which is extremely annoying as well. I had forgotten to tap off, and had to go allllll the way up just to tap off. There's a lot of these decisions at Union which make the experience subpar. And they aren't even expensive fixes (not free, but I'm sure adding additional departure boards and Presto machines won't break the bank).

 

[nfitz]

I'm a regular GO rider, and even I wouldn't know to board at the Bay concourse instead of the York concourse for a 6 coach train.

I use the same information at Danforth to know not to be at the far west end of the platform when it's a 10-car train - as invariably I am there to get off for the York west teamway or the Exhibition tunnel. And at Guelph Central a couple of weeks ago, to know where to be for the 6-car train.

Perhaps the lines you use don't have variable lengths? If you start tailoring the signage for individual stations, when it just gets more complicated. After all there are the permanent signs on the platforms showing where 6, 8(?), 10, and 12-car trains end (though why the signage at most stations isn't as clear as the ones at Danforth I don't know)

And I am still extremely annoyed by the lack of departure boards when you walk into Union from the subway station. They should be there as soon as you walk in, and not have to wait until you get up to the Bay and York concourses. There's no Presto machines on that level either, which is extremely annoying as well. I had forgotten to tap off, and had to go allllll the way up just to tap off. There's a lot of these decisions at Union which make the experience subpar. And they aren't even expensive fixes (not free, but I'm sure adding additional departure boards and Presto machines won't break the bank).

Agreed. More Presto tap locations system-wide would be a good thing.

I've double backed from the subway entrance as well to tap off GO. I thought using the Bay west teamway got you to the closest tap-off location. There might be one at the entrances to the VIA concourse as well - not sure if that's closer.

 

[T3G]

. They should be there as soon as you walk in, and not have to wait until you get up to the Bay and York concourses

Not to excuse this, which is indeed a problem, but I've found that using gotracker.ca helps a lot. I've caught a few trains by the skin of my teeth just because I was able to check the departure location ahead of time and didn't have to waste time stopping and looking for the departure signs.

But yes, it's unacceptable that they don't have this option for those who don't have phones/internet.

 

[WB62]

They need to highlight the actual destination of the train first e.g. |KW| Bramalea instead of |KW| Kitchener ... then the stops. It makes way more sense, and will be super helpful for Express trains and branched service as well.

Below just makes no sense IMO

The screens were set up for this, the photo you attached was the original version that rolled out in 2024.

First version:

The “to” column was intended to display the final destination, but I guess somewhere along the development process, the line names were chosen to be displayed instead.

A few weeks after these screens were introduced at Union, they renamed the column to “line”, to better reflect how it was actually being used.

Revised version:

This is what the screens would look like if the “to” column was used correctly, in conjunction with lettered lines:

Presenting information this way eliminates the confusion passengers face with the current line names.
Most Kitchener Line trains don’t go to Kitchener, same with the Barrie Line, and Stouffville Line. As service ramps up, there will be an even greater amount of trains short turning over travelling end to end, so it’s time to move away from a naming scheme that suggests otherwise.

 

[WB62]

I think they could remove the number of coaches. It's useful when you're on the track, I suppose, but I don't think it needs to take so much real estate on the signs, cuz when you're waiting for it to cycle through all the stops, it's kind of annoying. Luckily I'm mostly taking the Milton train, which literally has no variation, but Lakeshore West does and when I need to get to Port Credit, not every train stops there.

Based on feedback received, the train length info was removed from the concourse screens 2 weeks after the screens launched. That information hasn’t been present for almost two years.

 

[Dan416]

I use the same information at Danforth to know not to be at the far west end of the platform when it's a 10-car train - as invariably I am there to get off for the York west teamway or the Exhibition tunnel. And at Guelph Central a couple of weeks ago, to know where to be for the 6-car train.

Perhaps the lines you use don't have variable lengths? If you start tailoring the signage for individual stations, when it just gets more complicated. After all there are the permanent signs on the platforms showing where 6, 8(?), 10, and 12-car trains end (though why the signage at most stations isn't as clear as the ones at Danforth I don't know)

Agreed. More Presto tap locations system-wide would be a good thing.

I've double backed from the subway entrance as well to tap off GO. I thought using the Bay west teamway got you to the closest tap-off location. There might be one at the entrances to the VIA concourse as well - not sure if that's closer.

I use Milton if I'm going at normal times. I always board at the first car from the locomotive because it's (a) the closest end to Hurontario at Cooksville and (b) the closest to Bay Street to walk up to Dundas. So the length of the trains is pretty much irrelevant to me. I know I've seen 10 and 12 car trains on Milton, but not sure if we have ever the 6s.

The time I had to double back I was taking the subway, and didn't think to go to the Teamway. I didn't think at the time that there are NO Presto readers at that level. I think they're more useful for tapping off versus tapping on, but either way, there should be some at that level.

 

[Dan416]

The screens were set up for this, the photo you attached was the original version that rolled out in 2024.

First version:
View attachment 715061

The “to” column was intended to display the final destination, but I guess somewhere along the development process, the line names were chosen to be displayed instead.

A few weeks after these screens were introduced at Union, they renamed the column to “line”, to better reflect how it was actually being used.

Revised version:
View attachment 715060

This is what the screens would look like if the “to” column was used correctly, in conjunction with lettered lines:

View attachment 715063

Presenting information this way eliminates the confusion passengers face with the current line names.
Most Kitchener Line trains don’t go to Kitchener, same with the Barrie Line, and Stouffville Line. As service ramps up, there will be an even greater amount of trains short turning over travelling end to end, so it’s time to move away from a naming scheme that suggests otherwise.

I don't see them switching back to the single letters. Best to just leave them as KI, MI, LW, LE, etc. But I agree with listing the destination, I think that makes sense. It's silly to call it a Kitchener train when it's only going as far as Bramalea.