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GO Transit: Service thread (including extensions)

Usually when I hear rail proposals I say:
1) rail banking is key (buy the ROW)
2) Run a basic bus service

In this case there is also high support for this project in Cambridge (which usually is very NIMBY)

The selecton of Pinebush as a terminus may seem odd but, there are many significant high density projects basically everywhere along the Fergus sub in Cambridge
Silknit (https://www.cambridgetoday.ca/local...uilding-site-project-gets-green-light-5606840)
Queen St (https://www.cambridgetoday.ca/local...y-residential-development-in-hespeler-6848003)
Preston (https://kitchener.citynews.ca/2023/...osed-for-laurel-and-dolph-streets-in-preston/)

And the ones below:
kalis0490 said:
There are pretty huge developments that are being built on the Fergus sub. These two separate projects are at VMC density
View attachment 455803View attachment 455804

Even if Milton routing is selected (it won't) The Fergus sub is a good place for an ion stage 4 tram-train anyways as future tod in the area is very dense (seen above)
Click to expand...
Its realistic that Pinebush looks like VMC in the future (denser than anywhere in Cambridge) so its a good idea to have good rail access.
 
kalis0490 said:
In this case there is also high support for this project in Cambridge (which usually is very NIMBY)

The selecton of Pinebush as a terminus may seem odd but, there are many significant high density projects basically everywhere along the Fergus sub in Cambridge
Silknit (https://www.cambridgetoday.ca/local...uilding-site-project-gets-green-light-5606840)
Queen St (https://www.cambridgetoday.ca/local...y-residential-development-in-hespeler-6848003)
Preston (https://kitchener.citynews.ca/2023/...osed-for-laurel-and-dolph-streets-in-preston/)

And the ones below:

Its realistic that Pinebush looks like VMC in the future (denser than anywhere in Cambridge) so its a good idea to have good rail access.
Click to expand...

First, NIMBY =/= anti-GO. Everyone loves their trains.

Second, The Fergus Sub in Cambridge may have less development potential than you think. Queen St and Silknet may be up in the air after Steve Clark's ouster as Municipal Affairs Minister, and other properties are likely unsuitable due to floodplain and wetlands. See mapping here.

Third, Pinebush stop is logical as it's integrated with the planned ION stop. But it does not mean the planned ION stop is in a good spot, just a cheap spot. It'd be better suited northwards, where GO buses can connect at a Park-and-Ride during offpeak periods.
 
I think the Guelph to Cambridge (DMU?) should go right into Cambridge on alignment built for the ION... Is there a way to intergrate those together? Assuming Guelph service arrives every 30 minutes (at best!), this could be slotted in - maybe a third platform at the terminal? Would be annoying to have to transfer to ION for the short hop into downtown Cambridge.
 
andrewmaps said:
I think the Guelph to Cambridge (DMU?) should go right into Cambridge on alignment built for the ION... Is there a way to intergrate those together? Assuming Guelph service arrives every 30 minutes (at best!), this could be slotted in - maybe a third platform at the terminal? Would be annoying to have to transfer to ION for the short hop into downtown Cambridge.
Click to expand...
It is feasible but a mainline train couldn't share the on-street alignment into Cambridge so it would need to be built as LRT, as dowlingm describes below:
dowlingm said:
My thought is simpler -
have Metrolinx buy the Fergus Spur,
run the service as light rail but preserving heavy rail access like Waterloo
switch to on-street to get to the Guelph GO station,
negotiate a merger with ION to run the system as a unified regional entity and shared OMSF with Phase 2
Click to expand...
The on-street running in Guelph would make the LRT option a bit slower than the regional rail option but the improved station coverage is probably enough to offset that.
dowlingm said:
perhaps, but without space for a stub platform, or a pocket nearby to keep the set out of the way, that would seem to needlessly complicate operations for the mainline services. Unless Metrolinx were to deploy more Flirts, it then becomes a one-off vehicle with all the training/crewing issues which flow from that
Click to expand...
There isn't room for a stub track at the station but it looks like there may be room for a pocket track on the east side of the bridge. The bridge itself is future-proofed for double track and we'll presumably need to double track it anyway at some point.
 
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Speaking above about the GO train proposal only going to Pinebush, I also see another more political reason for doing it: The Phase 2 Ion already has low projected ridership numbers. What better way to raise those numbers by forcing people who want to get on/off the GO train from downtown Cambridge to have to take the ION LRT there first to get to it.

Running the GO line all the way to downtown Cambridge would help to cannibalize already low ION LRT Phase 2 ridership.
 
I really like the idea of something that is iOn-compatible so that the IOn and the Guelph line effectively becomes a Y with street running in Guelph and a terminal in downtown Galt (and perhaps some day continues southwards) . Doesn’t necessarily imply Flexities, maybe a different design of equipment (closer to an old style interurban) better suited to longer distances between stops and single track with sidings..
I wonder if that would reduce the overall cost in comparison to heavier rail GO like service.

- Paul
 
robmausser said:
Speaking above about the GO train proposal only going to Pinebush, I also see another more political reason for doing it: The Phase 2 Ion already has low projected ridership numbers. What better way to raise those numbers by forcing people who want to get on/off the GO train from downtown Cambridge to have to take the ION LRT there first to get to it.

Running the GO line all the way to downtown Cambridge would help to cannibalize already low ION LRT Phase 2 ridership.
Click to expand...
Or similarly in the LRT option, they could short-turn every other train to train at Fairview to reflect the low projected Cambridge-Kitchener ridership, with the tracks within Cambridge gaining a second ridership source in the form of travellers to/from Guelph:

Capture.PNG
 
reaperexpress said:
Or similarly in the LRT option, they could short-turn every other train to train at Fairview to reflect the low projected Cambridge-Kitchener ridership, with the tracks within Cambridge gaining a second ridership source in the form of travellers to/from Guelph:

View attachment 543322
Click to expand...
If the goal is to extend service to downtown Galt, it should just keep running down the Fergus Spur. It's abandoned south of Pinebush, and that way you aren't running DMUs on a road. Hespeler Road is a disaster as is.
 
Metroscapes said:
If the goal is to extend service to downtown Galt, it should just keep running down the Fergus Spur. It's abandoned south of Pinebush, and that way you aren't running DMUs on a road. Hespeler Road is a disaster as is.
Click to expand...
In the LRT option, the service would be operated by LRT vehicles not DMUs. And in any case my map is not discussing the alignment of the route (this is the GO Transit Service Thread, not the Waterloo Region thread), merely the notion of the Guelph-Cambridge "GO" service instead being built as an LRT branch of the Stage 2 Ion LRT line wherever that line may be. The current plan does include using the Fergus spur between Delta and Downtown Cambridge.
 
ShonTron said:
Why is the station called Pinebush when the intersecting street called Eagle in that area?
Click to expand...

Waterloo Region has an obsession with roads changing names at intersections and it's definitely something that people who move here find to be extremely strange. A lot of it has to do with how the cities grew into each other and how the subdivisions were made so in this particular case Eagle St "ends" at Hespeler Rd and Pinebush Rd "starts" even though they're really the same road, one issue with calling the station Eagle would be people wouldn't necessarily know which end of Eagle St, is it the Preston end or the Hespeler end? This is why the stations are called Preston and then Pinebush. A similar issue arose with phase 1 when they were originally coming up with names as King was an idea that was floated but because of the line running along King it's arbitrary so they got rid of it. It's also why there is no Hespeler station since the LRT runs on Hespeler from Pinebush to the Delta.

The Delta is another strange example of this naming issue as you have Hespeler Rd turning into Water St and you also have Coronation Blvd turning into Dundas St all at the same intersection. However this is certainly not a problem solely in Cambridge, Kitchener and Waterloo both have some relatively major roads changing names constantly for example in Kitchener Lackner Blvd turns into Bingemans Center Dr which turns into Shirley Ave, which then turns into Wellington St, and then at both ends turn into local roads (Walter St, Glasgow St, Lackner Cres, and Idle Creek Dr), you also have Queen St turning into Queens Blvd, Park St turning into Jubilee Dr turning into Courtland Ave turning into Fairway Rd which eventually turns into Kossuth Rd. In Waterloo you have Columbia turning into Lexington, you also have Erbsville Rd turning into Ira Needles Blvd.

There's also a couple dozen other examples of this happening in KWC as well but on your smaller suburban local roads, for example Westforest Trail turns into Eastforest Trail which turns into Westheights Dr which then turns back into Westforest Trail. Commonwealth St turns into Abram Clemens Way, Donnenworth Dr turning into Amand Dr, and the list goes on.
 
I did this illustration for the museum in Guelph last year - maybe ION/GO street running along Waterloo into downtown Guelph can be reinstated? Exiting the Fergus sub at Silvercreek - site of the old silvercreek brewery - Who ever wudda thought?! Sorry this verging on fantasy territory!
Guelph Historic Tram Sketch lq.jpg
 
I just want to take this opportunity to once again reiterate how dumb the Cambridge to Guelph GO project is. I'm fairly certain the coming update will just kill off the project.

$500 million for a shuttle! Just run a bus! And having a station at Pinebush is so far out of Cambridge where people actually live it will be useless and tethered to a slow LRT ride. People will just drive.

It's not even worth bothering railbanking the Fergus Spur. There is very little transit potential on it and if you absolutely NEED a train to Cambridge, just extend the Milton Line. You would be better off using the land of the Fergus Spur for more productive uses when it's abandoned.
 
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