GO Transit: Service thread (including extensions)

[Leo_Chan]

Isn't returning the money to the TTC identical, for all intents and purposes, to subsidizing their own service?

And how is it different from when you transfer from TTC to GO? When you do that, you pay $3.00 when you tap on TTC then your GO fare is subsidized by $1.50 off whatever it would have been. So that could continue exactly the same with metropasses. If nothing else, they could just give you the TTC>GO discount, not GO>TTC, but even GO>TTC the only change that needs to be made is reconciling it on the back-end at the end of the day, or when you tap on TTC the fare is -$1.50 (a refund of $1.50) and Metrolinx pays the TTC the exact same $1.50 as always, simply making the fare $0.

The problem is that a metropass allows for “unlimited” trips, so if you took all your 41(?) GO trips for the month you could potentially make money (?) from taking the TTC.

I might be wrong with my logic, so correct me please.

 

[torontocolin]

No, you would still be paying money, just less than if you didn't have the Metropass. You could theoretically get a bigger total discount than the value of your Metropass, but given that GO caps fares too, I don't think that's possible either.

 

[APTA-2048]

It's not particularly useful if you live in much of Scarberia either. Or Etobicrack or North York.

8% is very good. Maybe should extend it though to Danforth station and then terminate some at Kennedy station and others out towards Guildwood.

Ok
1. What the hell is with your distaste for Etobicoke and Scarborough?

2. UP Express is quite useful if you live in Scarborough, particularly the south near the Lakeshore Line. I use it all the time. Come to think of it, it's useful if you live in Pickering, Ajax and probably Whitby and Oshawa too.

 

[Megaton327]

The problem is that a metropass allows for “unlimited” trips, so if you took all your 41(?) GO trips for the month you could potentially make money (?) from taking the TTC.

I might be wrong with my logic, so correct me please.

No, you would still be paying money, just less than if you didn't have the Metropass. You could theoretically get a bigger total discount than the value of your Metropass, but given that GO caps fares too, I don't think that's possible either.

Yeah, and you can program around this in many ways. You can say after (price of metropass / $1.50) trips on GO, you no longer receive the discount, or that once your GO trips are <$1.50 due to capping there is no longer any discount. Much better than just flipping off everybody with a metropass.

Anyone remember when they had those discounted GO stickers for Metropass owners to ride between Exhibition/Danforth/Union? This seems like the exact opposite of that.

 

[reaperexpress]

I think the issue is that the concept of a monthly pass is obsolete with smartcards. The modern equivalent is a monthly 'cap' of the same dollar amount, after which all trips are free. This is far more convenient for customers as it avoids needing to guess at the beginning of the month whether or not a 'pass' is worthwhile, and simplifies smart card programming for features such as the GO+TTC discount.

In the TTC's case, there would be a monthly cap of $146.25 after which all trips that month are free. If many of your trips end up costing $1.50 instead of $3.00 it would just mean that it takes you more trips to reach the $146.25 cap. Or alternatively the cap could be based on a certain number of TTC trips per month regardless of how much you paid for each (this is what GO Transit does). But TTC Downtown Express surcharges would need to be accounted for on a separate monthly cap of $43.00 since daily Downtown Express commuters would exceed the Metropass monthly cost.

 

[nfitz]

Ok
1. What the hell is with your distaste for Etobicoke and Scarborough?

After the 4-year Rob Ford disaster, they both voted for Doug Ford over a right-winger like John Tory.

2. UP Express is quite useful if you live in Scarborough, particularly the south near the Lakeshore Line. I use it all the time. Come to think of it, it's useful if you live in Pickering, Ajax and probably Whitby and Oshawa too.

Playing with some schedules - yes it works better than I thought.

 

[christiesplits]

I'm interested in seeing how many people are transferring at the new Downsview stations.

For instance, if you're going from Aurora GO to U of T, presumably it would make more sense to get off at Downsview and take the subway southbound to St. George rather than going all the way down to Union and then take the subway northbound to St. George.

 

[Leo_Chan]

I'm interested in seeing how many people are transferring at the new Downsview stations.

For instance, if you're going from Aurora GO to U of T, presumably it would make more sense to get off at Downsview and take the subway southbound to St. George rather than going all the way down to Union and then take the subway northbound to St. George.

Well, you do save $0.98 and 3 minutes by getting off at Downsview Park.

 

[DonValleyRainbow]

Great catch Paul. I'm curious where the three customers are located. I think one of them is in Bradford? Happy to check Google Maps later to see if I can spot and locate them, just out of curiosity.

The lumber yard is the only customer that I can be truly sure of. Besides the two lumber loads, there were two covered hoppers (which might have come out of the plant at Snider) and one tank car (perhaps from the tank farm further south). When I went by on the GO train, the tank farm looked like it hadn't been switched today (snow on the rails).

- Paul

Keele and McNaughton, King Rd and Dufferin, and north of Bradford station.

 

[Megaton327]

I'm interested in seeing how many people are transferring at the new Downsview stations.

For instance, if you're going from Aurora GO to U of T, presumably it would make more sense to get off at Downsview and take the subway southbound to St. George rather than going all the way down to Union and then take the subway northbound to St. George.

My thoughts exactly. Personally, connecting between GO and the TTC at Union is not something I enjoy, it's a longer walk than at Downsview Park and it's generally fairly crowded even off-peak, and a total zoo during peak. And of course Union TTC is about to enter another round of construction to install faregates, which is going to suck. Not a comfortable experience at all, then during peak (and often even off peak) no seat on the subway. Whereas at Downsview Park there's a good 45 seconds of actual walking in total, and maybe another 45 seconds of taking escalators up/down, there are few people in the station, and you're guaranteed a seat on the subway.

Heading back north (during peak--not applicable midday/evenings/weekends) there is the issue of not getting a seat on the GO train, but from Downsview Park it's about 15 minutes to Rutherford, and Rutherford passengers tend to get up and head to the doors a good 10 minutes before their stop, so I think a single passenger boarding at Downsview Park would stand for 5 minutes if even that.

Well, you do save $0.98 and 3 minutes by getting off at Downsview Park.

And that adds up. $1.96 and 6 minutes a day, if you're a daily commuter, especially a budget-conscious student, it's not huge but it's not negligible either.

Let's not kid ourselves though, the 3 minute time saving isn't guaranteed. The TTC is known for subway delays, anything from signal problems to emergency alarms to suicides. However, GO isn't immune from delays either, especially at the Davenport Diamond where I can't remember the last time I was on a train that wasn't delayed at least 5 minutes there, and usually there's another ~5min stop in the Union area to let UPX go in/out because apparently GO forgot that UPX exists when they drew up the Barrie schedules.

And if you take GO to Union, you're kind of doubling your risk because you're subject to GO delays on that stretch and you're taking the TTC back north. From Downsview Park, you're only taking the TTC. I think 0-5 minutes of time savings is a reasonable expectation on average, it might be more or less on occasion.

Plus, depending when one leaves St George, keeping in mind the 18-20 minutes it takes to get from Union to Downsview Park (plus the chance of delays for the UPX and at Davenport), there is a very real possibility that you might have gotten to Union to just miss a departing train, whereas you might be able to intercept it up the line at Downsview Park. Of course, vice versa there could be a northbound subway delay or short turn, but I think on the whole you're more likely to get lucky catching a train than missing one by heading north. This would add a minimum of 30 minutes of time savings which is huge.

 

[smallspy]

Keele and McNaughton, King Rd and Dufferin, and north of Bradford station.

Mile 13.40 - Haremar Plastics
Mile 15.29 - Welded Tube Canada (was inactive for a while, but their siding is still connected and listed as active)
Mile 18.68 - Argo&Alpa Lumber
Mile 19.29 - Anco Chemical
Mile 24.16 - King Lumber
Mile 41.95 - Dominion Farm Produce

Dan
Toronto, Ont.

 

[Leo_Chan]

and usually there's another ~5min stop in the Union area to let UPX go in/out because apparently GO forgot that UPX exists when they drew up the Barrie schedules.

Um, is this real life?

 

[steveintoronto]

I'm interested in seeing how many people are transferring at the new Downsview stations.

For instance, if you're going from Aurora GO to U of T, presumably it would make more sense to get off at Downsview and take the subway southbound to St. George rather than going all the way down to Union and then take the subway northbound to St. George.

Echoes of ending up in Square One (which is punishment for something in itself) from the 25 or 29 and then deciding whether to take MiWay 109 to Islington and then the subway to Dundas West, or take a 21 down to Union, and then the UPX back up to Bloor. Even though it costs slightly more, I take the MiWay 109 Express along the Busway if it is running and then the subway. It saves almost half an hour if timetables mesh. (Typical wait alone is for 20 minutes for a 21 to Union)

At least the Lakeshore Line (east and west, but west especially) gives you incremented distance options to transfer in the west end. I now see the dilemma you describe in a new light. Hobson's Choice...

 

[Allandale25]

Um, is this real life?

I think I noticed that as well. Rather than "forgot", wouldn't it actually just be a case of track capacity?

 

[Megaton327]

I think I noticed that as well. Rather than "forgot", wouldn't it actually just be a case of track capacity?

But for midday trains, why not schedule the Barrie trains to arrive/depart when no UPX movement is happening? Midday on the west side of the station you don't have a ton of trains running like rush hour. Departures aren't too bad but the midday arrivals are scheduled to arrive at each XX:33, which is right smack dab in the middle of the departing :30 UPX and the arriving ~ :35 UPX.

Also, it's a bit late to do anything about it, but it's ridiculous that they put UPX on Platform 3 when Barrie trains need to be on the northernmost tracks since at the split they go north while UPX goes northwest. It should never have been done that way.