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GO Transit: Service thread (including extensions)

Northern Light said:
I very much share your concerns.

I would add there are a host of areas that demonstrably justify investment in new/enhanced rail service before this proposal should be up for serious discussion (Milton GO, cough)

That said, I feel a bit of pull in the other direction. I wonder how much commuting there is today, and how much we could shift to a greener choice by way of offering limited train service.

I wonder how much non-commuting traffic (shopping in the City on a Saturday etc.) might be shifted by even one train each way.

I also worry about losing the rail infrastructure to disuse, and the impact that has on existing freight shifting to truck, and whether we simply end up w/growth that doesn't even pay lip service to transit or good planning.

Would a limited-scope investment ever be worth it if the we held firm on the greenbelt?

Could we allow and sustain (including drinking water) limited intensification entirely within the built up areas of Shelburne, Alliston, Orangeville etc?

I'm not sure I have a satisfactory answer, except to say any investment here should be approached with caution, having thought through most if not all of the above.
Click to expand...
I only skimmed the article about Shelbourne/Orangeville....but isn't it about extending bus service....not rail.
 
Northern Light said:
I very much share your concerns.

I would add there are a host of areas that demonstrably justify investment in new/enhanced rail service before this proposal should be up for serious discussion (Milton GO, cough)

That said, I feel a bit of pull in the other direction. I wonder how much commuting there is today, and how much we could shift to a greener choice by way of offering limited train service.

I wonder how much non-commuting traffic (shopping in the City on a Saturday etc.) might be shifted by even one train each way.

I also worry about losing the rail infrastructure to disuse, and the impact that has on existing freight shifting to truck, and whether we simply end up w/growth that doesn't even pay lip self rvice to transit or good planning.

Would a limited-scope investment ever be worth it if the we held firm on the greenbelt?

Could we allow and sustain (including drinking water) limited intensification entirely within the built up areas of Shelburne, Alliston, Orangeville etc?

I'm not sure I have a satisfactory answer, except to say any investment here should be approached with caution, having thought through most if not all of the above.
Click to expand...

The folks I know don’t work downtown, and have lots of examples of neighbours who work in Bolton, Newmarket, Brampton etc. That’s a more manageable commute.

They would welcome a bus that gets them that far as opposed to driving, especially in winter. Putting a train on the Orangeville line gets we enthusiasts frothed up, but a good regular bus would likely meet more peoples’ needs.

The issue is not so much the riders who are there today, but the number of people who would trade a commute for much cheaper housing if there were development that way. The potential demand is strong, which is why so many developers and elected folks are eager to see development up that way.

We really need a good clear common development plan for the 30-mile ring outside the Greenbelt, just as carefully enforced as Places to Grow (Ford notwithstanding). Then we can analyse what the right transit for that plan should be.

PS - If we can’t create more affordable housing within the GTA, we are probably fighting a losing battle.

- Paul
 
This train of thought (please excuse the pun) in the above posts got me wondering, who owns the rail corridor that goes by Woodbridge, Kleinburg and Bolton?

Is it CP Rail? With the missing link by-pass, would they still require that rail corridor?
 
WislaHD said:
Heh, TIL.

I wonder if that could go all the way up to Collingwood one day.
Click to expand...

It would probably have to go the same was as the now-abandoned CN route to Collingwood, connecting at the BCRY junction at Utopia, as CP itself never served Collingwood. I think the idea of a Collingwood train is pretty much dead. GO train service to Bolton is always a long-term proposal, but the furthest I could ever see a commuter rail service going on that route is Alliston, with stations in Woodbridge, Bolton, Palgrave, and Tottenham, somehow linking to the Weston Sub.

As its a CP line, I'd be surprised to see anything more than one or peak direction two trains.
 
Thought this post from the ION thread was interesting so will bring my reply to it here:

nfitz said:
In the short-term perhaps, but in the long term the line from Guelph to Cambridge might be a better option to serving Cambridge - particularly Preston, than extending service on the CP-owned mainline from Milton.

Not sure how well going through Cambellville would work - it's 2 very long sides of a triangle, half-way back to Milton, before joining the CP line.

In terms of short-term service to Cambridge, I'd think that simply extending one or two peak trains that terminate at Milton to Galt would be the solution. While I don't think negotiating a contract with CP for frequent service to Cambridge would be easy - and would require much infrastructure upgrades - I'd be more optimistic that a couple of peak trains to Milton wouldn't be as difficult to negotiate.

Travel time on CP back in 1968 from Cambridge (Galt) to Milton was only 25 minutes. Gosh, only 61 minutes on the express from Union to Galt ... that's about the travel time to Milton these days!
Click to expand...

In the long-term (and assuming successful negotiations with CP), wouldn't running both services to Cambridge be ideal?

I imagine there is probably significant interest in commuting between Cambridge and Guelph as there is for a direct connection to Union.
 
WislaHD said:
Thought this post from the ION thread was interesting so will bring my reply to it here:



In the long-term (and assuming successful negotiations with CP), wouldn't running both services to Cambridge be ideal?

I imagine there is probably significant interest in commuting between Cambridge and Guelph as there is for a direct connection to Union.
Click to expand...

Cambridge is actively studying the route along the Fergus Sub to Guelph, here's a map of it from 2018. I honestly think it's the better option.

CambridgeOnTheGOMap.jpg
 
ShonTron said:
It would probably have to go the same was as the now-abandoned CN route to Collingwood, connecting at the BCRY junction at Utopia, as CP itself never served Collingwood. I think the idea of a Collingwood train is pretty much dead. GO train service to Bolton is always a long-term proposal, but the furthest I could ever see a commuter rail service going on that route is Alliston, with stations in Woodbridge, Bolton, Palgrave, and Tottenham, somehow linking to the Weston Sub.

As its a CP line, I'd be surprised to see anything more than one or peak direction two trains.
Click to expand...

To my way of thinking, a GO train (as in commuter-focused service) never made sense to Collingwood.

What did and to me still does make sense, providing travel times could be reasonable, for the scale of investment is tourist-class train travel.

Its a way for GTA-area folks to get up to Blue Mountain for Skiing or Wasaga for a swim.

In saying that, I realize the infrastructure cost would be an extreme challenge, particularly if it was primarily justified for a limited tourism service only.

The mix of investments required for upgrade and new spurs would be in the many millions, likely hundreds of millions, and that's a steep ask for light traffic.

Still, I had thought that if the track were also able to serve freight; and perhaps have a limited local service that connected the hinterlands to Barrie there might be a case to be made.

If there is such a case to be made, however, it will be at the margins and rank well below many other more crucial investments, which should come first.
 
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Northern Light said:
To my way of thinking, a GO train (as in commuter-focused service) never made sense to Collingwood.

What did and to me still does make sense, providing travel times could be reasonable, for the scale of investment is tourist-class train travel.

Its a way for GTA-area folks to get up to Blue Mountain for Skiing or Wasaga for a swim.

In saying that, I realize the infrastructure cost would be an extreme challenge, particularly if it was primarily justified for a limited tourism service only.

The mix of investments required for upgrade and new spurs would be in the many millions, likely hundreds of millions, and that's a steep ask for light traffic.

Still, I had thought that if the track were also able to serve freight; and perhaps have a limited local service that connected the hinterlands to Barrie there might be a case to be made.

If there is such a case to be made, however, it will be at the margins and rank well below many other more crucial investments, which should come first.
Click to expand...

If there was a market for freight traffic to Collingwood, the line wouldn't have been embargoed (rails are still in place but the line is spiked at Utopia). There is always the 'last mile' problem. The ROW is at the east end of Collingwood, the hills at the west, and line is a fair distance from the beach at Wasaga. A shuttle bus from the GO railhead at Barrie would make more sense if there is a market. Of course, private money is free to invest. Probably better to spend public money on real needs before playground needs.
 
crs1026 said:
I would deginitely like to see better bus service all the way up to Owen Sound, but not necessarily in a way that triggers commuting.
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Back in May Owen Sound won $1.44 Million from the MTO for a proposed intercity bus service (although this would go to Guelph).

http://www.owensoundsuntimes.com/2018/05/04/mto-to-fund-owen-sound-to-guelph-bus-route

lenaitch said:
If there was a market for freight traffic to Collingwood, the line wouldn't have been embargoed (rails are still in place but the line is spiked at Utopia). There is always the 'last mile' problem. The ROW is at the east end of Collingwood, the hills at the west, and line is a fair distance from the beach at Wasaga. A shuttle bus from the GO railhead at Barrie would make more sense if there is a market. Of course, private money is free to invest. Probably better to spend public money on real needs before playground needs.
Click to expand...

I'm wondering if Simcoe County's LINX bus service (which currently runs a route from Barrie to Midland) might look into that route in the future. There'd certainly be demand for it on the weekends.

But yeah, I agree that there are few arguments to be made in favor of re-establishing rail service to Collingwood in the foreseeable future. I wonder how long it will be until the line is converted to a bike path.
 
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M636RF said:
Back in May Owen Sound won $1.44 Million from the MTO for a proposed intercity bus service (although this would go to Guelph).

http://www.owensoundsuntimes.com/2018/05/04/mto-to-fund-owen-sound-to-guelph-bus-route



I'm wondering if Simcoe County's LINX bus service (which currently runs a route from Barrie to Midland) might look into that route in the future. There'd certainly be demand for it on the weekends.

But yeah, I agree that there are few arguments to be made in favor of re-establishing rail service to Collingwood in the foreseeable future. I wonder how long it will be until the line is converted to a bike path.
Click to expand...

LINX is expanding, and Collingwood will be a new destination. Link.
 
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