GO Transit: Service thread (including extensions)

[Filip]

Fantastic movement on the RER front. I'm loving the EMUs and being able to up/down capacity by changing the number of cars.

No use in running 12 car EMUs in non-peak hours unless it's warranted.

Now just to deal with the horrific crowding on Union platforms. Satellite stations won't provide the type of relief required. Union needs to be dealt with by a tunnel (in conjunction with merging certain platforms to create ultra wide ones at surface level).

 

[nfitz]

Lakeshore, IIRC, increased more than 400% in an earlier 10-year timespan. It once had no offpeak service.

The Lakeshore line launched in 1967 , with off-peak service and weekend service from day 1 from Oakville to Pickering. A few months later it went to the hourly service, very similar to the schedule we saw until relatively recently.

 

[rbt]

he said he shifts his travel time to avoid the bus so is on the train anyway, just not at the time he would prefer...so he is already counted in the current train usage.

I see. I misread his post. Thanks for the correction.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

Fantastic movement on the RER front. I'm loving the EMUs and being able to up/down capacity by changing the number of cars.

No use in running 12 car EMUs in non-peak hours unless it's warranted.

Now just to deal with the horrific crowding on Union platforms. Satellite stations won't provide the type of relief required. Union needs to be dealt with by a tunnel (in conjunction with merging certain platforms to create ultra wide ones at surface level).

They are already making noises in the report on how costly some of the measures (tunnelling, etc) would be. Like honestly, I wish they had the foresight to design the current Union Station redo to accommodate for that eventuality instead of having to go back to the drawing board in order for something we were all expecting in the first place. Taking two decades to redo a station is a disgrace - it's a failure of long-term planning laid bare for all to see and ridicule.

AoD

 

[Filip]

They are already making noises in the report on how costly some of the measures (tunnelling, etc) would be. Like honestly, I wish they had the foresight to design the current Union Station redo to accommodate for that eventuality instead of having to go back to the drawing board in order for something we were all expecting in the first place. Taking two decades to redo a station is a disgrace - it's a failure of long-term planning laid bare for all to see and ridicule.

AoD

I really wonder how they think a satellite station is going to fix this.... Like I honestly wonder....

The Bathurst South station hinges on the DRL dipping south (which is asinine given that it basically truncates the line at that point and doesn't allow it to logically be extended west aside from serving the Ex). Otherwise, Bathurst is on the very fringes of downtown, quite far from where people are going.

A station east will run into many of the same problems, but with a lot less real estate to plop a station. Underground is the only way to go. At that point, they should also redo the platforms at current track level. Eliminate some (thus making very wide platforms) and have it set up for (PLATFORM)(TRACK)(TRACK)(PLATFORM)(TRACK)(TRACK)etc..

 

[nfitz]

I really wonder how they think a satellite station is going to fix this.... Like I honestly wonder....

Should work very well I'd think, if they put the station, as they previously proposed, between Bay and Yonge.

The Bathurst South station ...

I can't imagine them going with that option, over the one between Bay and Yonge.

... I wish they had the foresight to design the current Union Station redo to accommodate for that eventuality instead of having to go back to the drawing board in order for something we were all expecting in the first place.

I didn't think that putting the underground platforms east of Bay would have much impact on any of the work they've been doing. It's not like they've dug up Bay Street as part of this - at least that far south.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

I didn't think that putting the underground platforms east of Bay would have much impact on any of the work they've been doing. It's not like they've dug up Bay Street as part of this - at least that far south.

Except that's an ad hoc, incremental solution that does not leverage off the current effort to reorganize the station in a more rational manner. What you will end up with is a warren that offers no clarity in organization, only inconvenience and exacerbation in any attempt to navigate the resultant complex.

AoD

 

[nfitz]

Except that's an ad hoc, incremental solution that does not leverage off the current effort to reorganize the station in a more rational manner. What you will end up with is a warren that offers no clarity in organization, only inconvenience and exacerbation in any attempt to navigate the resultant complex.

It sure makes more sense than putting new platforms east of Spadina!

It's not like they haven't been considering that plan since long before the current work Presumably they've already thought about this. Should integrate quite well I'd think, into the existing stations and PATH.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

It sure makes more sense than putting new platforms east of Spadina!

It's not like they haven't been considering that plan since long before the current work Presumably they've already thought about this. Should integrate quite well I'd think, into the existing stations and PATH.

That's like comparing the mediocre to the worst. Not exactly the best way to ensure excellence. As to the plan - what's available out there (the Union Station Capacity Study from a few years) certainly didn't look much by the way of integration of that kind of a tunnel system with the existing station. It's like oops, we can't touch the Union Station and the shed much now, let's think of something that would suffice.

AoD

 

[rbt]

Yes there is some updated information include potential service levels, track plans, and revenue graphs. There is a summary report, the full report, and two appendices here: http://www.metrolinx.com/en/regiona...nefitscases/benefits_case_analyses.aspx#gorer

My favourite page is this one. It indicates that the big spending (and I assume locked in and hard to cancel tenders) starts in 2017. Scenario 5 may not depend on the results of the next election. Yay!

 

[gweed123]

With regards to the peak vs non-peak train lengths, I would suspect that the service pattern for some lines, take Lakeshore West for example, would be this:

Peak:

• Bi-levels (probably 12) + 2 electric locomotives: Local from Hamilton to Appleby or Bronte, then express to Union.
• 12-car EMUs: Local from Burlington to Clarkson, express to Union.
• 8-car EMUs: Local from Clarkson or Port Credit to Union.

Off-Peak:

• 8-car EMUs: Local from Burlington to Clarkson (with every 4th train extending to Hamilton), express to Union.
  
• 8-car EMUs: Local from Clarkson to Union.

Overall, I don't see Lakeshore E+W operating with anything less than 8-car EMUs, unless they'll be running subway-level frequencies outside of peak. Lines like Stouffville, Barrie, and Brampton I can see 4-car EMUs off-peak. Brampton can get away with it because you'd have the UPX which in essence would double the frequency on the Toronto section of that line.

EDIT: They have the scenarios laid out on Page 37: http://www.metrolinx.com/en/regiona...s/GO_RER_Initial_Business_Case_EN.pdf#page=37

Looks like the service from Hamilton would be diesel, not electric, and would run express from Oakville, not Bronte.

 

[mdrejhon]

Looks like the service from Hamilton would be diesel, not electric, and would run express from Oakville, not Bronte.

With RER Phase II (2025-2035), maybe not.
This diagram makes this Hamiltonian dream:

A tease of a Pantograph at West Harbour!

For now, yes, West Harbour opened 3 years too early for its market (due to PanAm) and only serves 2 trains a day for Pan Am. Major ridership increases will happen once year round NiagaraGO service begins, as West Harbour will be the only way to catch a train Hamilton-NiagaraFalls. Given the recent successful Welland Canal priority guarantee for GO Trains, I'd anticipate year-round Niagara GO service will be announced before this decade is out.

Combined with all-day 2-way Hamilton service and local Hamilton mayoral candidates salivating at campaigning on a relatively-small electrification extension from Aldershot to Hamilton. It will likely will require at least one rail-to-rail grade separation, and also the Hamilton LRT to be built, to justify 15-minute Hamilton RER service. But it could happen politically (provincial & municipal campaigns) given Aldershot tantializingly close to West Harbour.

By then, both CN/CP will have finally gotten used to running freight trains occasionally under GO RER catenary, with sufficient enough experience to let Metrolinx electrify into Hamilton. One is bound to negotiate letting Hamilton become electrified, and there's much more unamious support for GO expansions in Hamilton's electorate, despite divided support for LRT.

I can imagine the 2026 Hamilton municipal election being "electrified" (pun).

As we speak, CN is expanding the Hamilton Junction (saw pile drivers operating there this Feb 2016) and building a Metrolinx-funded 3rd track, in their corridor, into the West Harbour GO area, anticipating the increase in GO traffic over time, amongst other construction I've photographed last year.

 

[Dan416]

I like how page 94 shows that with full service, Milton would have the most passengers of all corridors except Lakeshore. But it's not part of the plan due to the whole CP issue.

 

[salsa]

I never said that "everybody" who lives in the suburbs has a job downtown that is 9 - 5...but the vast majority of people who travel from the suburbs to downtown do. That is why we have things called "peak" and "off peak"...peak is where most (not all) of the trips are

The majority of TTC trips are made off peak. Part of the reason for that is because the subway and many bus routes have frequent service all day long, which makes transit useful for a larger variety of purposes beyond just commuting to work. With RER, I don't see why a similar transformation wouldn't be possible for GO Transit. There's lots more things to do downtown than just 9 to 5 jobs.

 

[44 North]

I haven't had the time to read the report yet, but one thing I'm noticing right off the bat is that ridership projections and business case worthiness don't seem to match those found in earlier modeling studies and previous electrification reports. Perhaps Steve Munro will have an article about this.

But on a more basic level, am I the only one not attracted to the use of bilevels? I dunno, maybe we should try for something akin to the GO-ALRT program of decades past. It's much more subway-like. Two storey trains and low platforms doesn't do it for me. I think the public would be much happier with single-level high platform trains. And maybe it's time for MLinx to start considering tram-trains that could be combined with future high platform LRT projects.