GO Transit: Service thread (including extensions)

[Filip]

GO has moved stations before.

Unionville Station used to be in the historic village. It was moved because GO (and many of its customers) wanted a giant parking lot (in the long run, it makes a lot of sense; Highway 407 buses can serve the new Unionville Station easily; Markham is urbanizing the area, including a new university campus). Trains that stopped at Lorne Park were moved to Clarkson soon after GO's launch in 1967. Weston and Miliken Stations were moved across the street (Lawrence and Steeles Avenues, respectively). And of course, GO moved its Downtown Hamilton station in 1996.

But there's room for both Mimico and Park Lawn, even with GO's current model of 10 and 12-car diesel trains. Other stations in close proximity include Centennial-Markham-Mount Joy, and Maple and Rutherford.

Ya I figured that guy was full of BS, so I'm hoping one of those top down political decisions occur and Metrolinx gets siderailed (no pun intended).

 

[nfitz]

The closest example of course is Exhibition station. If you are on Dufferin near the bridge over the tracks, you can still see the original stairs to the long-gone platform on the west side of Dufferin. The platform was entirely west of Dufferin, extending around the curve about half way to Dunn Avenue:

 

[Filip]

It gets into a weird political situation now. Both Mimico and Park Lawn are in the same ward provincially and municipally.

'Moving' Mimico to Park Lawn is viewed as eliminating a station that has been there for 150 years, not as a relocation 'nearby'. So you have the Mimico folks petitioning not to move the station, and the HBS folks saying we are where ridership resides. The same politicians get to hear both sides, so relocating would be out of the question. It'll be both, if PL GO is to happen.

 

[gweed123]

I think Park Lawn will be built along with the move to RER. It's pretty close for 12-car bilevel service, but it's pretty decent for 6-car EMU service. Both of those stations will probably end up being on the "local" route of the RER service anyway, so it won't be like it's adding an extra stop for people from Halton & western Peel.

 

[DonValleyRainbow]

I'm still thinking about other factors of influence here:

• The current Mimico station is going to be the site of a new condo. I think moving it opens GO to a lawsuit on the grounds that the condo developer made an investment decision based on the current location and Metrolinx's commitments, and whether or not that is a successful argument, it is a risk.
• There needs to be consideration to network building. Would Mx/TTC prefer a connection at Park Lawn with the Waterfront West LRT, or the Relief Line (now confirmed to be on Queen) at Sunnyside?
• As per above and considering station spacing, this also seems to be a choice between moving a station (Mimico to Park Lawn) vs. keeping Mimico and adding another new station at Sunnyside.

 

[Filip]

I'm still thinking about other factors of influence here:

• The current Mimico station is going to be the site of a new condo. I think moving it opens GO to a lawsuit on the grounds that the condo developer made an investment decision based on the current location and Metrolinx's commitments, and whether or not that is a successful argument, it is a risk.
• There needs to be consideration to network building. Would Mx/TTC prefer a connection at Park Lawn with the Waterfront West LRT, or the Relief Line (now confirmed to be on Queen) at Sunnyside?
• As per above and considering station spacing, this also seems to be a choice between moving a station (Mimico to Park Lawn) vs. keeping Mimico and adding another new station at Sunnyside.

1) That condo seems to have stalled. No activity on the site for months, and the pit is flooded.

2) Relief Line at Sunnyside is over 30 years away, minimum (no interest in building the western leg for now) - so do we tell 40,000 people that due to a potential long term plan to extend the subway sometime in 2040+, their very immediate need for higher level transit is ignored?

Point is, the city and province have concocted Humber Bay Shores and dropped 15,000 condo units in an area that cannot support the density. I don't give a crap about connectivity at Sunnyside, I just want to be able to get somewhere without being stuck in traffic as soon as I leave my condo. When Sunnyside looks like Humber Bay, we can revisit it.

 

[salsa]

'Moving' Mimico to Park Lawn is viewed as eliminating a station that has been there for 150 years, not as a relocation 'nearby'. So you have the Mimico folks petitioning not to move the station, and the HBS folks saying we are where ridership resides. The same politicians get to hear both sides, so relocating would be out of the question. It'll be both, if PL GO is to happen.

Mimico station may have been around for a while, but it doesn't mean that it makes sense to keep it since the city has changed a lot since then. Ideally it should be moved to Park Lawn, but as you said politicians have to suck up to the small handful of people that currently use it. So most likely we will end up with both stations.

Similarly, some people are also fighting to keep York University GO station, which was slated to be replaced by a new station at Downsview Park as part of the Spadina subway extension. Councillor Perruzza plans to introduce a motion asking Metrolinx not to close the station. I hope his efforts fail because that station is in a crappy location in the middle of an industrial park, a long ugly walk from the actual university, and a short distance away from the new station. I can't for the life of me understand why some people prefer to keep using it instead of transferring to the subway at Downsview Park. If it's because they don't want to pay an extra TTC fare, then wouldn't it be better to find some sort of solution in the presto fare policy (e.g free transfer) instead of keeping the crappy GO station?

 

[nfitz]

Similarly, some people are also fighting to keep York University GO station, which was slated to be replaced by a new station at Downsview Park as part of the Spadina subway extension. Councillor Perruzza plans to introduce a motion asking Metrolinx not to close the station. I hope his efforts fail because that station is in a crappy location in the middle of an industrial park, a long ugly walk from the actual university, and a short distance away from the new station. I can't for the life of me understand why some people prefer to keep using it instead of transferring to the subway at Downsview Park. If it's because they don't want to pay an extra TTC fare, then wouldn't it be better to find some sort of solution in the presto fare policy (e.g free transfer) instead of keeping the crappy GO station?

A short distance? It's over 3.0 km. If you worked near the existing station, it's over a 4-km walk - almost an hour.

I agree it's a poor location - but why not shift the station slightly to the north, so that you can walk off the platform at Steeles - and at the south end, it would touch the existing platform, and you could walk off there as well?

 

[salsa]

A short distance? It's over 3.5 km. If you worked near the existing station, it's over a 4-km walk - almost an hour.

I agree it's a poor location - but why not shift the station slightly to the north, so that you can walk off the platform at Steeles - and at the south end, it would touch the existing platform, and you could walk off there as well?

I meant a short distance away in terms of stop spacing for a commuter rail line, though that distance is a bit longer than I thought. I agree that moving it to Steeles would be a better solution. At least it would be accessible by the TTC Steeles bus.

 

[mdrejhon]

3.5km is similar to Union-Exhibition.

In a true RER system (Paris definition), both would be kept, with some trains bypassing one of the two stations.

We now have capability to run some station almost unmanned, without GO wicket staff, thanks to presto AVM's. Some light patrolling may be needed. One could downgrade the station to a basic station, as going forward, full GO standard staffing fleet for RER stations is not necessarily practical, so a bit of spreading resources around is justified for non-major stations...

 

[nfitz]

I meant a short distance away in terms of stop spacing for a commuter rail line, though that distance is a bit longer than I thought. I agree that moving it to Steeles would be a better solution. At least it would be accessible by the TTC Steeles bus.

That's the text of the City of Toronto motion though isn't it?

City Council request that Metrolinx not close the York University GO Train Station located at 595-A Canarctic Drive and to work with City of Toronto staff to improve access to the GO Station and possibly relocate the Station to Steeles Avenue West.
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3.5km is similar to Union-Exhibition.

Closer to 3.0 km. Though looks like I measured a bit wrong, and it's about 3.0 km from the current York station too the new Downsview Park station.

To look at an example on the same line - it's about 2.4 km from the Rutherford to Maple GO stations.

 

[salsa]

That's the text of the City of Toronto motion though isn't it?

City Council request that Metrolinx not close the York University GO Train Station located at 595-A Canarctic Drive and to work with City of Toronto staff to improve access to the GO Station and possibly relocate the Station to Steeles Avenue West.

Sounds reasonable. I was relying on this tweet from yesterday, I didn't read the actual motion.

 

[raptor]

Sounds reasonable. I was relying on this tweet from yesterday, I didn't read the actual motion.

View attachment 65773

The motion was adopted:
http://app.toronto.ca/tmmis/viewAgendaItemHistory.do?item=2016.MM12.31

Hopefully Metrolinx will either ignore it or say 'No, thnaks'

 

[TOareaFan]

The motion was adopted:
http://app.toronto.ca/tmmis/viewAgendaItemHistory.do?item=2016.MM12.31

Hopefully Metrolinx will either ignore it or say 'No, thnaks'

Why? do you think a station at Steeles is a bad idea?

 

[crs1026]

Indeed, I've never heard of anyone talking about moving Long Branch Station at head office. What had been talked about was shifting the platforms closer to Browns Line, in order to allow for wider platforms and to get them off of the curve, but even those rumours seem to have quieted down.

Dan
Toronto, Ont.

Hey, I didn't start this - a woman at the meeting did. I have seen this discussed as the idea moving the station to the east side of Brown's Line, but I'm honestly not sure I can remember where I read this. It was someplace credible, as opposed to an enthusiasts' fantasy.

- Paul