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GO Transit: Service thread (including extensions)

sixrings said:
Are you suggesting a decade or two to fix the Milton line. Yup that makes sense. And let’s add another decade because of cost increases and playing political football.
Click to expand...

*sigh*. This is getting a little tiring. Despite many opinions to the contrary, it's abundantly clear that Milton was left out of the GO Expansion plan. For the reasons outlined in the Business Case document. ML may have been right, they may have been wrong, but it is what it is.

Federal and provincial governments have made soothing noises about correcting that course, but nothing concrete has been said or agreed to. And concrete is definitely required.

So, yeah, whether anyone likes it or not, a few things will have to happen before Milton gets attention
- conclusive negotiation with CPKC (note how quickly and easily that happened with Bowmanville, and with CN on the Halton)
- completion or addition to whatever may already be in the files in terms of a TPAP (hint: consultations and local politics)
- new funding actually inserted in budgets (hint: there is no room for new funding either federally or provincially until a bunch of the existing projects have been paid for)
- design, procurement, and construction (hint: Ontario's construction sector is pretty much maxed out already)

So yes, whether anyone thinks this is good news or an outrageous travesty, it will be at least 15 years to see 2WAD to Milton. complaining and/or grinding axes will not speed it up.

- Paul
 
crs1026 said:
*sigh*. This is getting a little tiring. Despite many opinions to the contrary, it's abundantly clear that Milton was left out of the GO Expansion plan. For the reasons outlined in the Business Case document. ML may have been right, they may have been wrong, but it is what it is.

Federal and provincial governments have made soothing noises about correcting that course, but nothing concrete has been said or agreed to. And concrete is definitely required.

So, yeah, whether anyone likes it or not, a few things will have to happen before Milton gets attention
- conclusive negotiation with CPKC (note how quickly and easily that happened with Bowmanville, and with CN on the Halton)
- completion or addition to whatever may already be in the files in terms of a TPAP (hint: consultations and local politics)
- new funding actually inserted in budgets (hint: there is no room for new funding either federally or provincially until a bunch of the existing projects have been paid for)
- design, procurement, and construction (hint: Ontario's construction sector is pretty much maxed out already)

So yes, whether anyone thinks this is good news or an outrageous travesty, it will be at least 15 years to see 2WAD to Milton. complaining and/or grinding axes will not speed it up.

- Paul
Click to expand...
Hold on. It’s tiring hearing about it. That’s a rough life. Try living with it.
 
crs1026 said:
I do, a couple times a week, on the 401, both ways. Will that make it happen faster?

- Paul

PS: The other days I ride the 501 streetcar. To meet friends who are coming in from the east end, where there used to be an SRT. Mississauga is not that "special".
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Yes but that SRT is being replaced with a subway. It’s hard for me to feel bad for a group of people who have drills already in the ground. I’m speaking as a former resident of Scarborough. Also the same people who were arguing that all they needed was the extension once it was funded went full force into why they deserve a full blown Sheppard extension.

These business cases are all a joke. There was no business case to why the university line should be underground. There was a business case for why the srt should be converted to lrt. A new mayor and suddenly the business case radically changes. This is all politics. So I do think complaining makes a difference. That’s how these decisions are made. Appealing to a base. I despise trump but that’s what got him elected. Listening to a base. That’s why trudeaus about to be gone. Not listening to a base. This is why ford became mayor promises to a base. And I’ve sent a letter to the new mayor and councillor expressing my frustration. This is all residents can do. Write letters and complain. Not just in one place but everywhere. If I could I’d just build the dang thing myself. But I can’t. So here we are. As you said. It is what it is.
 
crs1026 said:
It's worth going back to the GO Expansion Business Case before we start assuming increases (which, as noted, have been drawn from noise and other studies whose baselines are by design more conservative than the actual ML plan)

Note the ridership changes that ML is projecting. This does not seem to argue for any all- day enhancement of the Richmond Hill line

View attachment 615334

Also note the commentary.

View attachment 615333

The point being..... we can all argue our individual opinions, but if this is ML's plan, this is all they are going to build. Maybe in a decade or two....

- Paul
Click to expand...
Looking at that document, at how small the dot for Bloomington is ... and how big that parking garage is. I'm not sure why they couldn't have just built a parking lot similar to the one Acton (which was already there, and grossly underused on weekdays). I'm just realising now that ridership was never projected to be that high at all!
 
crs1026 said:
It's worth going back to the GO Expansion Business Case before we start assuming increases (which, as noted, have been drawn from noise and other studies whose baselines are by design more conservative than the actual ML plan)

Note the ridership changes that ML is projecting. This does not seem to argue for any all- day enhancement of the Richmond Hill line

View attachment 615334

Also note the commentary.

View attachment 615333

The point being..... we can all argue our individual opinions, but if this is ML's plan, this is all they are going to build. Maybe in a decade or two....

- Paul
Click to expand...
The scope of GO expansion has changed significantly from the business case from my understanding after the proponent was selected.

It would not surprise me if the proponent identified the potential for significant increases in service levels on the Richmond Hill line, when before Metrolinx had largely been identifying it as "out of scope" of the project.

At the time of the business case, I believe Metrolinx viewed the RH line as remaining more or less in stasis at current service levels.

Bloomington was always intended to try to relieve parking pressure on Aurora GO - but it struggles as the RH line has much more limited service and is also significantly slower than the Barrie Line at getting downtown.
 
Everyone just remember how much were supposed to obey these business cases and not question them when they conclude that bike lanes produce more traffic and hurt the economy therefore they need to go.
 
nfitz said:
I'd say an increase from 10 trains (total) per day to 81 trains a day is a lot more than a minor service improvement! That's at least every 30-minutes all-day both ways (how that's possible without at least some passing tracks I don't know). Perhaps I'm missing something.

I'm certainly not saying Richmond Hill needs a significant improvement (I really don't see the demand is there south of Richmond Hill GO - especially once the Line 1 extension opens). I'm just surprised at how big the number is! I'm not sure what they are thinking here ... I wonder if using the DMUs might be an option for this line.

Obviously Milton needs significant approval - which is why both Ontario and the Feds are talking about it. But Richmond Hill is, in comparison, low-hanging fruit. Perhaps GO staff think it might help some of them keep their jobs, after ONxpress supplants some of their functions.
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Weekend bus service would be a huge improvement on the Richmond Hill line.
 
sixrings said:
Everyone just remember how much were supposed to obey these business cases and not question them when they conclude that bike lanes produce more traffic and hurt the economy therefore they need to go.
Click to expand...
Ok, I guess I will never trust a business case ever again - that includes that of any Subway, Light Rail, or Highway Project.

In fact, since we can never trust that a Business Case is trustworthy, we should just stop building stuff altogether. Let's get rid of most taxes, and completely abandon the idea of capital projects. If someone wants to build a piece of infrastructure like a rail line, it should only be done via private money and firms. Clearly the government is way too biased and incompetent to ever be involved in that process. Brightline seems to be an amazing model, and should be the main way we get anything built on this continent.

... wait what do you mean the Feds contributed to Brightline?
 
ARG1 said:
Ok, I guess I will never trust a business case ever again - that includes that of any Subway, Light Rail, or Highway Project.

In fact, since we can never trust that a Business Case is trustworthy, we should just stop building stuff altogether. Let's get rid of most taxes, and completely abandon the idea of capital projects. If someone wants to build a piece of infrastructure like a rail line, it should only be done via private money and firms. Clearly the government is way too biased and incompetent to ever be involved in that process. Brightline seems to be an amazing model, and should be the main way we get anything built on this continent.

... wait what do you mean the Feds contributed to Brightline?
Click to expand...
I largely become a skeptic depending who is in power. If the people in power propose new highways (413), tunnels under the 401 and ripping up bike lanes it makes me become skeptics of their business cases.
 
Bojaxs said:
What do you guys make of this? Any truth to it?
Also what exactly is Alstom's role within Onxpress? I thought they were going to take over fleet maintenance, but that was contracted out to CAD Rail fleet. So Alstom's role within Onxpress is to make sure Metrolinx only procures Alstom equipment?
https://www.reddit.com/r/gotransit/comments/1h1ym64/prepare_for_a_messy_2025
Click to expand...

Let me bring that forward for the click averse:

1732817822099.png
 
innsertnamehere said:
I mean often these come from disgruntled employees not privy to the full picture.

These kinds of transitions are also not uncommon to experience a few "growing pains" which I'm sure will be resolved by mid 2025.
Click to expand...

Perhaps, but I am still stunned that the concept of "successor rights" did not apply to labour agreements, employment status, etc for operating and maintenance staff. I guess the law is less airtight than I had imagined.

The issue of the changeover leading to resetting vacation entitlements and limiting time off is one that I have heard directly from train crews. And the need to reapply for jobs with certified credentials is a bit hard to understand, although it may be understandable for management positions and the office organization (which may look nothing like ML's old organization).

- Paul
 
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