GO Transit: Service thread (including extensions)

[kalis0490]

Simcoe is no longer a small county - it has over 500K ppl as of the 2021 census.
IMO Collingwood-Barrie passenger rail is justified by the population growth itself:

Collingwood has 22,983 ppl and is growing at +13.7%
Wasaga has 22,194 ppl and is growing at +19.0%
Stayner has 4,699 and is growing at +10.4%
Angus - Borden has 14,503 and is growing at +15.5%

These towns are much further away from downtown Toronto, have Stouffville or Bradford level growth and lack the respective connectivity.

Lets hope Simcoe LINX improves regardless.

 

[APTA-2048]

Here’s a bit of trivia that you all might not know about:View attachment 501536

It’s kinda neat you can see the old stairs and maybe part of the platform when you pass by.

 

[Monarch Butterfly]

Before the Princes' Gates opened in 1927, the Dufferin Gates were the main CNE entrance.

The railway station used to be there. The old Dufferin Gates were demolished to build the Gardiner Expressway and another overpass (over the expressway). The hydro towers were also buried from the Humber River and east.

 

[nfitz]

Here’s a bit of trivia that you all might not know about:View attachment 501536

Ah! For a long time I thought I had false memory syndrome, because I used to live elsewhere, but had visited Toronto in 1979 and used GO to go the Ex. And I remembered these long concrete steps from the GO station to the entrance to the Ex. But on one of these boards I was told that it wasn't possible, because the old station closed years earlier!

I'm glad to finally have confirmation!

 

[Northern Light]

Simcoe is no longer a small county - it has over 500K ppl as of the 2021 census.
IMO Collingwood-Barrie passenger rail is justified by the population growth itself:

On the numbers, passenger rail to serve 500,000 disparate people over a fair distance isn't an economically feasible argument.

It arguably works for rounding the corner past Allandale and adding one station further along in Barrie, after that it dissolves as a frequent service operation.

To be clear, I'm in favour of revitalizing this track, but I think the economic argument is really about tourism and about avoiding costs on widening various highways in the alternative.

Lets hope Simcoe LINX improves regardless.

100% Agreed, weekend service is a must, as a starting point.

 

[WB62]

Ah! For a long time I thought I had false memory syndrome, because I used to elsewhere, but had visited Toronto in 1979 and used GO to go the Ex. And I remembered these long concrete steps from the GO station to the entrance to the Ex. But on one of these boards I was told that it wasn't possible, because the old station closed years earlier!

I'm glad to finally have confirmation!

Glad to have helped solve that mystery, maybe you’re even in this photo!

 

[Admiral Beez]

There's a slippery slope here. As much as I like the idea..... no transit system I can think of really aims to carry bikes in that volume.

The bike couriers get a little extra sympathy because it's a lousy low-paying job and clearly they can't afford to live close to their work. It's tempting to think we are addressing the unpleasant realities of Toronto housing problems aside by making this gesture.... but it may be little more than virtue signalling in the bigger picture. I wonder how Manhattan bike couriers for example make this work.

It would probably be cheaper to offer a subsidised courier targeted bikeshare out of Union station, than to impose all the capacity restraints on GO trains as a network. Bikes take up a lot of passenger-carrying space on a train.

The Niagara train is a bit of a mixed message and as a precedent it has its down side. It's great as a one-of, but it's a model that ML can't easily transpose to the business of everyday commuting. Even our model comparator system in the Netherlands charges 10 euros a day for bikes.

- Paul

I don’t like how the food delivery apps are relying on public transit to fund their model’s viability. And I have to think all these young men from India never thought that the best job they could get was as a food wallah for the rest us. We’re basically exploiting young men from the subcontinent, essentially continuing the British Indian indentured servant model the Empire was built upon.

I would outlaw all bicycles on GoTrains outside of weekends. When I used to work near Port Credit station I would take bikeshare from Cabbagetown and then drop the bike at Union for the train ride and then walk. It never occurred to me to ride my own bike to Union and try to put it on the train.

 

[tsm1072]

I don’t like how the food delivery apps are relying on public transit to fund their model’s viability. And I have to think all these young men from India never thought that the best job they could get was as a food wallah for the rest us. We’re basically exploiting young men from the subcontinent, essentially continuing the British Indian indentured servant model the Empire was built upon.

I would outlaw all bicycles on GoTrains outside of weekends. When I used to work near Port Credit station I would take bikeshare from Cabbagetown and then drop the bike at Union for the train ride and then walk. It never occurred to me to ride my own bike to Union and try to put it on the train.

Given our current public transit infrastructure, outlawing bikes on the train would not be good for encouraging transit trips. For example, a trip I took a couple of weekends ago would have taken much longer had I not been able to bring my bike on the train. The trip I took was; Bike to West Harbour (15 minutes), train to exhibition, bike to destination (10 minutes), return to exhibition later (10 minutes), train to Oakville, bike to next destination (10 minutes), overnight in Oakville, bike to Station (10 minutes), train to West Harbour, bike home (15 minutes).

This is a niche trip, but I was able to not use a car for an entire weekend of recreation and socializing, and using the train/bike was not significantly longer than if I had used a car. It will take time to build up infrastructure around suburban GO stations that support better walking, transit, and bike sharing. In the meantime, bikes on the train allow people to get from suburban GO stations to useful destinations without needing a car. I would support putting a bike car in pretty much every non-commuter consist to try and encourage more of this behaviour. Hopefully, by the time the demand for this becomes unsustainable, the surrounding infrastructure has improved to the point that bringing your own bike around isn't required.

 

[Admiral Beez]

In the meantime, bikes on the train allow people to get from suburban GO stations to useful destinations without needing a car.

Well yes, that's what was intended by allowing a few bikes per car outside of rush hour. I've done that myself on a weekend trip. But it's a different thing where Skip, Door Dash, Uber, Instacart, etc. are using GoTrains as part of their business model. Of course any business downtown that's dependent on its employees to commute from the suburbs could be accused of the same, but a downtown firm will pay a lot of tax at all three levels of government. How much corporate tax or property tax is Uber Eats paying in Ontario?

Canada’s laws allow Uber, Lyft to avoid paying as much as $135M a year in taxes, says advocacy group

Ride-hailing companies’ tax strategy amounts to government subsidy that allows them to charge cheap fares, says Canadians for Tax Fairness.

www.thestar.com

 

[Undead]

The alternative is the couriers drive.

 

[Northern Light]

The alternative is the couriers drive.

No, that's not the alternative.

When discussing Uber Eats/Door Dash and the like, the alternative is doing away with them entirely, and actually making people get off their butt and go sit in a restaurant like a social human being instead of sitting on the couch, in front of the TV eating food out of a takeaway container.

Failing that, maybe people could try learning how to cook. LOL

***

To be clear, I'm not opposed to all food delivery, and by all means, where we have food delivery, if it can be by bike, great!

But I think restaurant and grocery delivery has become far too ubiquitous; the social consequence from it being under-priced, due to paying extremely poorly; and of people being less social and more lazy is not healthy nor desirable.

Make food delivery services pay their full and fair share of taxes, including payroll taxes like EI/CPP; and have them pay a guaranteed minimum wage, which is also a living wage; and I think the service's scale would collapse by 75% under its own weight, when every delivery costs an extra $10 vs today.

 

[afransen]

No, that's not the alternative.

When discussing Uber Eats/Door Dash and the like, the alternative is doing away with them entirely, and actually making people get off their butt and go sit in a restaurant like a social human being instead of sitting on the couch, in front of the TV eating food out of a takeaway container.

Failing that, maybe people could try learning how to cook. LOL

***

To be clear, I'm not opposed to all food delivery, and by all means, where we have food delivery, if it can be by bike, great!

But I think restaurant and grocery delivery has become far too ubiquitous; the social consequence from it being under-priced, due to paying extremely poorly; and of people being less social and more lazy is not healthy nor desirable.

Make food delivery services pay their full and fair share of taxes, including payroll taxes like EI/CPP; and have them pay a guaranteed minimum wage, which is also a living wage; and I think the service's scale would collapse by 75% under its own weight, when every delivery costs an extra $10 vs today.

I think that much like personal mobility, small parcel delivery is liable to being automated. Just as we likely will see robotaxis shuttling folks around in place of today's human-operated taxis and Uber/Lyft vehicles, short-distance food and grocery delivery is likely to be automated, if not by aerial drones, then by wheeled robots trundling along sidewalks or bike paths.

Legitimately impressive. I used to be quite skeptical of aerial drones for small parcel delivery but this seems like a very good solution.

'It's truly contactless': In a new world, Nuro's delivery pods gain new virtue

Co-founder and President Dave Ferguson on coronavirus fears, self-driving vehicles and his bid to speed testing of the autonomous R2.

www.protocol.com

 

[Northern Light]

I think that much like personal mobility, small parcel delivery is liable to being automated. Just as we likely will see robotaxis shuttling folks around in place of today's human-operated taxis and Uber/Lyft vehicles, short-distance food and grocery delivery is likely to be automated, if not by aerial drones, then by wheeled robots trundling along sidewalks or bike paths.

Legitimately impressive. I used to be quite skeptical of aerial drones for small parcel delivery but this seems like a very good solution.

'It's truly contactless': In a new world, Nuro's delivery pods gain new virtue

Co-founder and President Dave Ferguson on coronavirus fears, self-driving vehicles and his bid to speed testing of the autonomous R2.

www.protocol.com

Doubtless there is a role for such; and, I am certainly a champion of automation.

However, at-scale, in dense urban areas, we might have serious congestion issues if we didn't moderate their use, and or impose not merely off-peak, but mostly, overnight delivery.

That, in turn, doesn't work for ordering dinner, there also issues of porch piracy and such, as there are today.

 

[reaperexpress]

That, in turn, doesn't work for ordering dinner, there also issues of porch piracy and such, as there are today.

This is totally off topic, but it blows my mind that in Canada it's normal for delivery drivers to just leave packages outside. It's a recipe for package theft. In the Netherlands if you're not home, they'll try to deliver to your neighbours, and if they're also not home, then they'll deliver the package to a designated spot in your neighbourhood such as a corner shop or post office. You'll get a note in your letterbox telling you where the package got delivered.

I don't imagine porch piracy is much of an issue for food delivery, since you're presumably already home when you order the food.

 

[turbanplanner]

This is totally off topic, but it blows my mind that in Canada it's normal for delivery drivers to just leave packages outside. It's a recipe for package theft. In the Netherlands if you're not home, they'll try to deliver to your neighbours, and if they're also not home, then they'll deliver the package to a designated spot in your neighbourhood such as a corner shop or post office. You'll get a note in your letterbox telling you where the package got delivered.

I don't imagine porch piracy is much of an issue for food delivery, since you're presumably already home when you order the food.

I find Europeans are super paranoid as someone who lived there.