News   Dec 02, 2024
 338     0 
News   Dec 02, 2024
 479     0 
News   Nov 29, 2024
 3K     5 

GO Transit: Service thread (including extensions)

Used the bus bridge between Oakville GO and Burlington GO yesterday...what a nightmare. The Burlington GO to Oakville GO express bus was scheduled to arrive at Oakville GO on the :30 and on the :00. Trains were scheduled to leave Oakville GO on the :29 and the :59. We got to Oakville GO a few minutes early and a bunch of us ran for the train, but because they close the doors 1 minute early, we watched the train hold on the platform with it's doors closed for 1 minute since we all missed it by seconds.

I will never understand why GO schedules things this way...this is how you turn people away from transit. My friend who barely made a 1 minute connection for an hourly bus when we got to Union said he won't be taking the GO next time since it took way too long.
 
I cannot believe that GO is still stubbornly maintaining that policy of closing the doors far earlier than is actually necessary to enable an on time departure. Despite everyone from all sides telling them how cruel and counterproductive it is.
 
FWIW Took the last LSE yesterday and it took exactly a minute to close both doors and stow ramps (I was curious as I knew the policy). Left exactly on time and frankly not sure how they do it much faster for trains with both north/south doors open. Does the policy stipulate they wait with doors closed?
 
Sixty seconds is really not very long, especially at Union where the CSA may have to close doors on both sides and deal with the ramp. I haven't seen a train close its doors and then perversely sit there counting down. Arriving in that last minute is indeed cutting it close, and I would say, sometimes you make it and sometimes you don't.

I recently found that similar restrictions are in place elsewhere.

- Paul


1689039372879.png

1689039413644.png

1689039456210.png
 
Does the policy stipulate they wait with doors closed?
The policy states to begin the door closing sequence exactly 1 minute before departure then handover control to the head end crew. Metrolinx wants wheels turning at exactly departure time.

60 seconds isn't usually a lot of time, particularly at Union with dual side boarding, but it can definitely get a little awkward having closed the doors within 20 seconds or something at other originating stations.
 
Sixty seconds is really not very long, especially at Union where the CSA may have to close doors on both sides and deal with the ramp. I haven't seen a train close its doors and then perversely sit there counting down. Arriving in that last minute is indeed cutting it close, and I would say, sometimes you make it and sometimes you don't.
60 seconds may be reasonable for the trains which have doors open on both sides at Union, but it is not reasonable to apply that same rule to the entire network when it requires the majority of trains to sit still with the doors closed for 30+ seconds. If you miss the train and it still sits there for a couple seconds after closing the doors, people will mostly perceive it as bad luck that they missed the train. But if it sits there for 30 seconds, they will perceive it as sabotage, and they will resent GO Transit. Which is not good for business.

Furthermore, requiring passengers to arrive at the platform 30 seconds earlier than necessary makes all trips on average 30 seconds longer, which adds up to a huge amount of wasted passenger time across the network. Wasting passengers' time is also not good for business.

Consider some alternative strategies:
Option A. Doors close 30 seconds before departure. Trains with doors open on both sides depart Union 30 seconds after the scheduled time. This is accounted for in the internal schedules.
Option B. Doors close 30 seconds before departure, except for trains with doors open on both sides. In that case, the first side does close 60 seconds before departure and the second side 30 seconds before.
B1: Only the platform which remains open last is listed on the departure screens. The other platform is used primarily for unloading.
B2: Both platforms are listed on the screen until a few minutes before departure, then for the last couple minutes, only the platform which remains open later is listed.
Option C. Doors close at the departure time. The internally scheduled departure time is either 30 or 60 seconds later depending on whether doors are scheduled to be open on both sides at Union.

I recently found that similar restrictions are in place elsewhere.
The procedure in the Netherlands is that the doors start to close 20 seconds before departure. I am very aware of this, as I would routinely arrive on the platform within about 40 seconds of the train, and I needed to account for the seconds. This is not a reckless practice, it is a rational and beneficial behaviour in an environment where both trains and streets are incredibly predictable, and everyone's (phone) clock is in sync with the railway's clock. To further facilitate this behaviour, NS provides clocks on every platform which show the seconds.

In practice, it took about 18 seconds to close the doors and the train would sit for about two seconds before starting to move.

When I was in London the National Rail stations in the area had signs indicating that doors close 30 seconds before departure.

The Eurostar is not a similar restriction, because passengers need to go through customs, and at some stations (Lille, Rotterdam and Amsterdam) there are not physical customs areas like you'd find at an airport. All of the passengers first need to go to the platform and clear customs which puts them into a locked area. Once everyone is in the secure area, staff seal off all the entrances to the platform, and then finally the passengers can be released back onto the platform to board the train.
 
Last edited:
Does the policy stipulate they wait with doors closed?
If the doors are closed and locked, yes.

For the record, the rule in England - and this is a rule, not "policy" - is that the doors must be closed and locked 30 seconds before scheduled departure at terminal and major stations. So yes, it is extremely common to see trains sitting on the platform for a length of time with the doors closed as it waits to depart.

Dan
 
One has to accept that human nature is going to dislike this practice, even if it is operationally efficient.

It's really satisfying when you board the train and hear the door chimes ring right behind you - feels good to say "just made it". And, it's fundamentally dissatisfying to see the doors slam shut when you are only 5 meters away, and dodging obstructions on the run like Daniel Craig.

The histrionics that one witnesses in the latter situation - bus and streetcars even more so than GO or subway - are sometimes amusing, but speak poorly of many. The things people shout at transit drivers as they drive on.......And the risks that people take running for a bus - especially in traffic - does not represent good judgement. Prying at the closing doors, even less so.

Which is why I would preach a "sometimes the windshield, sometimes the bug" detachment from the issue. GO's practice is not extreme in relation to other operators.

- Paul
 
If the airport gate has closed or the train door has closed, the plane or train has departed from a passenger perspective and the timetables the public sees should reflect that. It is irrelevant to the passenger where the plane or train is located if they cannot get on or off of it. I know people will say "that will cause people to show up later" but if you have a timer and a flashing light and chime that closes on a schedule then I don't know who can call it unfair. At the airport I don't even think it would be a problem... people are lined up and anxious to get on the plane long before they are able to board. VIA that happens too.
 
I think the real issue with GO is that that they publish connections that aren’t especially realistic even with the printed departure times. It’s one thing to have the operating practice, somewhat problematic to be publishing departure times that don’t reflect the doors closing, but wholly another level of issue to list bus connections that just don’t work.
 
Agreed. This thing is very much a modern incarnation of an interurban, and the routing only works if the Cambridge - Brantford and Brantford - Hamilton legs are competitive in their own right, and I admit that there is real vulnerability in both by going through Dundas on one and diverting to Paris on the other. With that said, the highway connectivity isn't great either, and as far as putting money into studies goes, I would make this single corridor the starting point. Ultimately I suspect this project will pencil out better, even if it needs quasi HSR speeds where it has its own right of way than building independent lower speed Cambridge - Brantford, Hamilton - Cambridge and Hamilton - Guelph corridors.
Its worth to note that ION stage 2 is already somewhat of an interurban. it has 8 stations in 19 km! (compare Finch west with 18 stations in 10.3 km). Large parts of the lrt would be in fully grade separate corridors (the region has pushed for more grade separation following lessons from the first line), including a significant section from Preston station to Pinebush and Delta station to Cambridge downtown using former interurban right of way.

A Cambridge - Brantford railway has some kind of merit given that the province is proposing a grade separate highway in the same area. The ROW of the old LNER interurban is well preserved in the form of a rail trail.https://www.grandriver.ca/en/outdoor-recreation/Cambridge-to-Paris-Rail-Trail.aspx#gsc.tab=0
I'd also object to the focus you put on Ion's slowness in Waterloo Region; you aren't wrong (and in a perfect world a Waterloo Region light metro more heavily emphasizing rail corridors, elevation and building a Kitchener subway along roughly Queen St would have been justified, and very much in the spirt of what UTDC envisioned for ICTS IMO) but ultimately we are talking about a fundamentally intercity service that re-uses Hespeler Rd, not the entirety of ION. It might not be FAST, but it offer good demand, good station locations along the route, and the alternative would be the still not great re-use of the CN corridor along Confederation / King.
Given 2006 era funding, activism and ridership even the current LRT was a massive stretch. However as the region densifies, conversion to light metro seems likely in the long term

As something of an aside, my actual take on the Ion costs is that while we need to take a serious look at whether anything can be done to control the escalation, the project is of enough strategic importance that we should still bite the bullet on it ASAP. With that said, there probably should be a de-coupling of Hespeler Road from the Cambridge extension. The brutal costs come from the infrastructure needed to get from Fairway to the top of Hespeler Road. Hespeler Road on the other hand would be viable as a BRT corridor in it's own right without LRT, doubly so if it were tied into the 401 with bus only ramps and improved GO bus connectivity at Pinebush. In short, I think the project should stil be move forward, but if it IS delayed, redesigning Hespeler for bus compatibility would be a good idea anyway, and that modified Hespeler Rd ROW really could be built with rails but without electrification (in anticipation of both ION and a Guelph line) independently of any delays to the actual Kitchener - Cambridge link.
One of the main reasons that the project cost is high is because it is assumed to be built in the 2030s with 15 years of construction inflation taken into account. The true cost of the extension if built today is about 2.7 billion which is high but reasonable compare to other projects.

Its worth to mention that the current ION bus is similar to the ZUM BRT (ie signal priority by queue jumpers, bus lanes on the highway, nice brt like stations) etc and is perfectly adequate for the demand for the next ten years. Its ridership is about 6000 ppl/day currently and there are numerous buses in KW which have higher ridership. Even the 2040 ridership for the LRT is about 15K ppl/day, which is less than most bus routes in Toronto today. The main purpose of ION stage 2 is to promote large scale densification of Cambridge (think VMC or North York Centre levels). Only If we take consideration of that does the expense of the LRT make sense.


Side NOTE: The proposed ION stage 3 in the 20 year infrastructure plan ( some kind of bus lanes near university ave) would probably have more long term ridership than ION Stage 2.
 
If the airport gate has closed or the train door has closed, the plane or train has departed from a passenger perspective and the timetables the public sees should reflect that. It is irrelevant to the passenger where the plane or train is located if they cannot get on or off of it. I know people will say "that will cause people to show up later" but if you have a timer and a flashing light and chime that closes on a schedule then I don't know who can call it unfair. At the airport I don't even think it would be a problem... people are lined up and anxious to get on the plane long before they are able to board. VIA that happens too.

Agreed. Instead of closing the doors 1 minute before the posted departure time, what on Earth prevented GO from changing all of their timetables so that all trains depart 1 minute earlier? Or for that matter, just as easily, why not not do that, because what bloody difference does all of your trains leaving all of their stations 1 minute earlier make? If my train is scheduled to close its doors at Aurora GO at 1:00PM and depart, then making up rough numbers, let's say leave King City at 1:10, Maple at 1:20, Downsview Park at 1:35, and arrive at Union at 1:52, and it's arriving at Union exactly 1 minute late every single day for no other reason than that it takes it a minute to close the doors, then the options are A) keep the departure times, close the doors at all stops 1 minute before those times instead of at those times, and arrive at Union on time instead of 1 minute late, but piss off a small percentage of casual riders on a regular basis discouraging people from riding transit (as if they needed any more reasons); B) change the departure times to Aurora 12:59PM, King City 1:09, Maple 1:19, Downsview Park 1:34, arrive Union 1:52, and close the doors on time; or C) keep most of the times and just note in the timetable that arrival at Union is at 1:53 instead of 1:52...I just really, truly do not get it.

And for that matter, this plan assumes the train crews are competent enough to close the doors at a prescribed time, whatever that time may be. Several years ago when I used to take the train occasionally, I would routinely see the doors closed between 15 seconds and 1 minute before the departure time, this was well before the current policy was put into effect, on a handful of occasions I saw angry passengers banging on the doors then get left behind at the station, and I regularly complained to GO about it and was told they'd investigate it but it never changed. I doubt their crews have taken lessons in how to read a clock in the intervening years.
 
I have brought this up before, however I still find it really unfortunate that GO had a better system with special event trains back in the 1990’s. It was a lot better with multiple proper scheduled trains on 4 lines before and after events that were added into the schedules, which is better than today; announcing a single extra train a few minutes before it leaves on 1 or 2 lines.
 
announcing a single extra train a few minutes before it leaves on 1 or 2 lines.
They timing it purposefully like that. The trains are in there ahead of time but they wait until the game is finished before they announce the schedule for them. There's also way more service now than before on most lines so there's fewer gaps to fill in.
 
They timing it purposefully like that. The trains are in there ahead of time but they wait until the game is finished before they announce the schedule for them. There's also way more service now than before on most lines so there's fewer gaps to fill in
I know the trains are at Union, but I don’t understand why the special events trains need to be announced so late. Milton and Richmond also don’t have more service the gaps that the 1990 schedule filled in are not filled in today.
 

Back
Top