GO Transit: Service thread (including extensions)

[robmausser]

I just find it strange we were willing to at least put RH GO on a roadmap 15 years ago, as if the transit plans we have today weren’t obvious enough then that we could foresee upgrading it.

I think the line does offer some benefits and decent connections in a vacuum, but considering what we need out of transit in its vicinity, it’s pretty obvious why we are building new lines instead of upgrading RH.

As per always discussed, the issue is the southern half of the RH line that runs along the Don River.

Its prone to flooding

The work needed to fix this problem is quite expensive, and they don't want to pump more money into the rest of the line (electrification) until its fixed.

Personally I think they should buy a bunch of DMU's and run more consistent all day service along it, rather than electrify.

You could even just run from Bloomington to Oriole and have people transfer at Sheppard Leslie. This is what Montreal does with the St.Jerome line, during off-peak the trains stop at Parc station and you have to transfer to the Metro to get downtown.

 

[leopetr]

The work needed to fix this problem is quite expensive, and they don't want to pump more money into the rest of the line (electrification) until its fixed.

Arguably the newly realigned mouth of the Don River fixes the Don valley flooding problems by allowing a much greater outflow into the harbour. I'm not sure if Metrolinx is factoring that into its Richmond Hill line plans, or if it's only considering elevation changes to the line as an acceptable solution.

 

[Sunnyside]

As per always discussed, the issue is the southern half of the RH line that runs along the Don River.

Its prone to flooding

View attachment 466233

The work needed to fix this problem is quite expensive, and they don't want to pump more money into the rest of the line (electrification) until its fixed.

Personally I think they should buy a bunch of DMU's and run more consistent all day service along it, rather than electrify.

You could even just run from Bloomington to Oriole and have people transfer at Sheppard Leslie. This is what Montreal does with the St.Jerome line, during off-peak the trains stop at Parc station and you have to transfer to the Metro to get downtown.

I’m aware of some issues, but I’m glad you could flesh them out. What I was trying to ask is, with those in mind, why Metrolinx would still have wanted to include upgrading RH as a medium-long term priority. As this is no longer the case, was it just that the Line 1 extension made more sense?

 

[Northern Light]

There are other 'issues' that make make the R-H line a fairly low priority; though it needs to be said, the Portlands plan will not eliminate upstream flooding of the rail corridor; though should reduce it some.

***

Aside from the circuitous route of the line and difficulties in adding stations anywhere south of Don Mills just north of Lawrence, there is the serious problem of Pottery Road.

Frequent, all-day, 2-way GO service would require grade separation of Pottery Rd.

You can't go down due to flooding issues, which means the rail corridor would have to go over Pottery, given the need for a relatively gentle grade, this impacts a huge length of track, and in the middle of an ESA no less.

To my knowledge, there are no detail designs or good class estimates of cost, but there is a back-of-the-envelope examination around somewhere and the costs were exorbitant.

***

I know a bit more than that, but what I can tell you is there are no plans to significantly ramp up service on the existing track, at the existing grade.

And, no, don't expect any near-term projects for a massive grade separation or other alternate scheme. In the longer term.......

 

[Metroscapes]

Richmond Hill line would have benefitted greatly if the CP Belleville Sub still had its connection to the Bala Sub, allowing RH trains to connect via the Don Branch. Alas that's now a rail trail and is not going anywhere, and any solution to try and connect them would be hella expensive.

 

[sixrings]

Stouffville and Barrie go from one track to two, not necessarily throughout.
Weston Sub (Kitchener Line) goes from 3 to 4 east of Bramalea, and gets three sidings west of Silver. (Breslau, Guelph, Acton).
CN Halton Sub (Kitchener) gets a third track through central Brampton, and something (details tbd) from Mount Pleasant to Georgetown..
LSE goes from 3 to 4 from Union to Scarborough Jct, and from 2 to 3 for a stretch east of Guildwood.
Richmond Hill, Milton, and LSW do not get any new track.
Bowmanville extension (on CP) gets a new track alongside existing CP single track.

- Paul

Milton’s trash. It doesn’t deserve new track anyway.

 

[Northern Light]

Milton’s trash. It doesn’t deserve new track anyway.

You know that type of sarcasm really isn't helpful.

 

[sixrings]

You know that type of sarcasm really isn't helpful.

What is helpful? Voting liberal. That didn’t help. Voting pc. That didn’t help. Serious comments on these threads don’t work either. Maybe they can make you feel there’s progress but there isn’t. At least there isn’t significant progress at a reasonably fast rate. Rather it’s more of don’t worry it will be here next year. And then the next year. And then election year. This is the year. The only thing metrolinx has successfully built is parking garages. That tells you everything you need to know about their priorities. The people on these threads seem to care about transit more than metrolinx does. As long as the pay checks keep coming they are seemingly happy. Amazingly I think the subway subway subway crowd takes transit more serious than these government workers. The truth is I’m just becoming a jaded old man.

 

[Sunnyside]

There are other 'issues' that make make the R-H line a fairly low priority; though it needs to be said, the Portlands plan will not eliminate upstream flooding of the rail corridor; though should reduce it some.

***

Aside from the circuitous route of the line and difficulties in adding stations anywhere south of Don Mills just north of Lawrence, there is the serious problem of Pottery Road.

Frequent, all-day, 2-day GO service would require grade separation of Pottery Rd.

You can't go down due to flooding issues, which means the rail corridor would have to go over Pottery, given the need for a relatively gently grade, this impacts a huge length of track, and in the middle of an ESA no less.

To my knowledge, there are no detail designs or good class estimates of cost, but there is a back-of-the-envelope examination around somewhere and the costs were exorbitant.

***

I know a bit more than that, but I can tell you is there are no plans to significantly ramp up service on the existing track, at the existing grade.

And, no, don't expect any near-term projects for a massive grade separation or other alternate scheme. In the longer term.......

Not to beat on a dead horse here- I appreciate the post- but I looked back and realized I was referring to this (#10) from the big move:

Given the challenges, it just seems strange for Metrolinx to ever have considered it worthwhile to upgrade RH to 2WAD, even if it’s a long term vision. Obviously many things have changed since this initial plan, but I can’t wrap my head around what the logic was here. This seems to imply at some point upgrades were on the table, but the back-of-the-envelope analysis you are referring to must have shown why even minor improvements are impractical. Strange to have made it so far into a key planning document.

Perhaps I’m giving this too much weight. The same map shows the midtown corridor after all. Maybe it was just provincial crayoning.

 

[anb]

As per always discussed, the issue is the southern half of the RH line that runs along the Don River.

Its prone to flooding

View attachment 466233
You could even just run from Bloomington to Oriole and have people transfer at Sheppard Leslie. This is what Montreal does with the St.Jerome line, during off-peak the trains stop at Parc station and you have to transfer to the Metro to get downtown.

They could do that… but the train service in the GTA overall is still too Union Stn centric so it’s highly unlikely they would do this at all. Milton all day 15 min or better service is more believable than them ever touching the RH line in the next 15 years.

 

[Sunnyside]

They could do that… but the train service in the GTA overall is still too Union Stn centric so it’s highly unlikely they would do this at all. Milton all day 15 min or better service is more believable than them ever touching the RH line in the next 15 years.

I don’t think it’s that far fetched, considering much of what is south of Oriole will eventually be used for storing trains from the electrified lines. Not to mention that’s where all the flooding challenges are, and where the line really starts to get “out of the way” of reaching Union.

Worth remembering that Richmond Hill is a low ridership line… it has potential (at a substantial cost) but there is little reason to prioritize its users/use case today. Maximizing its use will require thinking outside the box, especially if we don’t want it to be effectively replaced by the OL and YNSE.

 

[robmausser]

There are other 'issues' that make make the R-H line a fairly low priority; though it needs to be said, the Portlands plan will not eliminate upstream flooding of the rail corridor; though should reduce it some.

***

Aside from the circuitous route of the line and difficulties in adding stations anywhere south of Don Mills just north of Lawrence, there is the serious problem of Pottery Road.

Frequent, all-day, 2-way GO service would require grade separation of Pottery Rd.

You can't go down due to flooding issues, which means the rail corridor would have to go over Pottery, given the need for a relatively gentle grade, this impacts a huge length of track, and in the middle of an ESA no less.

To my knowledge, there are no detail designs or good class estimates of cost, but there is a back-of-the-envelope examination around somewhere and the costs were exorbitant.

***

I know a bit more than that, but what I can tell you is there are no plans to significantly ramp up service on the existing track, at the existing grade.

And, no, don't expect any near-term projects for a massive grade separation or other alternate scheme. In the longer term.......

If only we already had a bridge over the Don Valley, that would connect the north and south of the Richmond Hill line, avoid the grade crossing at Pottery Road and avoid much of the flooding areas, AND make a much better, straighter route as well.

Oh well, I guess we can always dream...

 

[sixrings]

Surely making sure that there is enough track to run the system you need all day should be a higher priority than parking garages.

 

[sixrings]

If only we already had a bridge over the Don Valley, that would connect the north and south of the Richmond Hill line, avoid the grade crossing at Pottery Road and avoid much of the flooding areas, AND make a much better, straighter route as well.

Oh well, I guess we can always dream...

View attachment 466436

Don’t worry Richmond hill is at the very least getting a subway. Sucks about the lack of train service but Milton has that same lack of trains. Some lines get better treatment than others. Be positive though. That will help get things done.

 

[sixrings]

They could do that… but the train service in the GTA overall is still too Union Stn centric so it’s highly unlikely they would do this at all. Milton all day 15 min or better service is more believable than them ever touching the RH line in the next 15 years.

Where is any believable evidence (not wishful thinking) that Milton will have 15 min or better service.