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GO Transit: Service thread (including extensions)

ARG1 said:
The problem isn't money, it's staff. Cutting London service isn't going to give you much in terms of staffing for any substantial service increase (it's a once per day extension of Kitchener service, not exactly something that can get you all day Kitchener line service).
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Turn around time though. Going ton London is essentially a day long commitment due to slow orders etc. We need that staff back in Union asap and going back asap. Unless that train will be sitting out of service when it reaches Brampton/Kitchener. I say the same for Niagara Falls at this point too. St Catharines is closed now.
 
Speaking of the new bus terminal, does anyone know why the signalling system inside the bus terminal is disabled and the screens are covered up? Instead, they have people directing buses to the appropriate platform and use stop signs instead of signals. The system is obviously working since there's a covered up screen on the second floor which detects buses when they come upstairs (I could see the bus number displayed on the screen). It's been almost 2 years since the terminal opened.
 
denfromoakvillemilton said:
Turn around time though. Going ton London is essentially a day long commitment due to slow orders etc. We need that staff back in Union asap and going back asap. Unless that train will be sitting out of service when it reaches Brampton/Kitchener. I say the same for Niagara Falls at this point too. St Catharines is closed now.
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The train leaves London at 5:15AM, and returns to London at ~8:15PM. If we pretend that the crew that operates the London train can freely go anywhere at any time, that's 1 extra crew we have to work with in a time period of 5:15AM-7:30AM, and 6PM to 8:15PM if we choose to cancel the London service. That morning trip especially isn't helpful as there isn't really any demand for a service that starts that early on most lines (and the ones that do already have train service). So that's crew that I guess could maybe operate an extra train service after 7PM?

The reality is the London trip isn't one that takes many resources at all. Sure I guess you are saving resources by cancelling it, but the amount of resources you get amounts to basically nothing. If London was a train that operated all day every 3 hours or so, then maybe this idea would have a leg to stand on, but the reality is there isn't much in terms of service that could be gained from cancelling the London service. You wouldn't be able to get more than 1 or 2tph on the Kitchener/Lakeshore Lines, and certainly not any additional weekend service.
 
ARG1 said:
The train leaves London at 5:15AM, and returns to London at ~8:15PM. If we pretend that the crew that operates the London train can freely go anywhere at any time, that's 1 extra crew we have to work with in a time period of 5:15AM-7:30AM, and 6PM to 8:15PM if we choose to cancel the London service. That morning trip especially isn't helpful as there isn't really any demand for a service that starts that early on most lines (and the ones that do already have train service). So that's crew that I guess could maybe operate an extra train service after 7PM?

The reality is the London trip isn't one that takes many resources at all. Sure I guess you are saving resources by cancelling it, but the amount of resources you get amounts to basically nothing. If London was a train that operated all day every 3 hours or so, then maybe this idea would have a leg to stand on, but the reality is there isn't much in terms of service that could be gained from cancelling the London service. You wouldn't be able to get more than 1 or 2tph on the Kitchener/Lakeshore Lines, and certainly not any additional weekend service.
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The crew is based in Kitchener so you need to also add an hour each way to drive to London in the morning, and back to Kitchener in the evening. It adds over 6h/day compared to just starting in Kitchener.
 
reaperexpress said:
The crew is based in Kitchener so you need to also add an hour each way to drive to London in the morning, and back to Kitchener in the evening. It adds over 6h/day compared to just starting in Kitchener.
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... sure, but again the number of hours isn't the problem, the problem is which hours specifically are lost - and the reality is those first 3 hours are absolutely worthless. In reality there are only 3 hours of actually worthwhile crew time that is lost, so that's an extra 3h worth of crew that you can do something with, and that something is during afternoon peak where there aren't many places where that crew can go and be useful. The only thing I can think of is maybe just redirect that London train to instead go back to Toronto instead which... neat? Not a lot that you can do with it though.
 
ARG1 said:
... sure, but again the number of hours isn't the problem, the problem is which hours specifically are lost - and the reality is those first 3 hours are absolutely worthless. In reality there are only 3 hours of actually worthwhile crew time that is lost, so that's an extra 3h worth of crew that you can do something with, and that something is during afternoon peak where there aren't many places where that crew can go and be useful. The only thing I can think of is maybe just redirect that London train to instead go back to Toronto instead which... neat? Not a lot that you can do with it though.
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Okay... but there's a maximum amount that each crew can work in a day. 3 hours of work at 4AM is 3 hours that they can't do later in the day. Currently the morning and afternoon London trains are run by two different crews because it would be too long of a shift otherwise.
 
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ARG1 said:
The problem isn't money, it's staff. Cutting London service isn't going to give you much in terms of staffing for any substantial service increase (it's a once per day extension of Kitchener service, not exactly something that can get you all day Kitchener line service).

For a weather protected terminal that can replace the old Toronto Coach Bus Terminal, and the old surface GO terminal, as well as leave room for busses when we have the staff to run more service? Just because we don't see it well used today doesn't mean it was a waste of time and money.
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reaperexpress said:
It did briefly in September 2021, but then we lost it after a few months when the staffing crisis began.
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ARG1 said:
The train leaves London at 5:15AM, and returns to London at ~8:15PM. If we pretend that the crew that operates the London train can freely go anywhere at any time, that's 1 extra crew we have to work with in a time period of 5:15AM-7:30AM, and 6PM to 8:15PM if we choose to cancel the London service. That morning trip especially isn't helpful as there isn't really any demand for a service that starts that early on most lines (and the ones that do already have train service). So that's crew that I guess could maybe operate an extra train service after 7PM?

The reality is the London trip isn't one that takes many resources at all. Sure I guess you are saving resources by cancelling it, but the amount of resources you get amounts to basically nothing. If London was a train that operated all day every 3 hours or so, then maybe this idea would have a leg to stand on, but the reality is there isn't much in terms of service that could be gained from cancelling the London service. You wouldn't be able to get more than 1 or 2tph on the Kitchener/Lakeshore Lines, and certainly not any additional weekend service.
Click to expand...

reaperexpress said:
The crew is based in Kitchener so you need to also add an hour each way to drive to London in the morning, and back to Kitchener in the evening. It adds over 6h/day compared to just starting in Kitchener.
Click to expand...

ARG1 said:
... sure, but again the number of hours isn't the problem, the problem is which hours specifically are lost - and the reality is those first 3 hours are absolutely worthless. In reality there are only 3 hours of actually worthwhile crew time that is lost, so that's an extra 3h worth of crew that you can do something with, and that something is during afternoon peak where there aren't many places where that crew can go and be useful. The only thing I can think of is maybe just redirect that London train to instead go back to Toronto instead which... neat? Not a lot that you can do with it though.
Click to expand...

reaperexpress said:
Okay... but there's a maximum amount that each crew can work in a day. 3 hours of work at 4AM is 3 hours that they can't do later in the day. Currently the morning and afternoon London trains are run by two different crews because it would be too long of a shift otherwise.
Click to expand...

I think sending train back to Toronto would work I guess in case of an emergency. I see your point @ARG1 but I just think with the crew shortage we should be focusing on the GTHA.

I don't like the Niagara Falls plans either with not stopping at St Catharines. Feels like that is the bulk of the ridership actually being missed.
 
denfromoakvillemilton said:
I think sending train back to Toronto would work I guess in case of an emergency. I see your point @ARG1 but I just think with the crew shortage we should be focusing on the GTHA.

I don't like the Niagara Falls plans either with not stopping at St Catharines. Feels like that is the bulk of the ridership actually being missed.
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Couldn't they put a trailer there as a temporary solution until the station is renovated?
 
denfromoakvillemilton said:
I think sending train back to Toronto would work I guess in case of an emergency. I see your point @ARG1 but I just think with the crew shortage we should be focusing on the GTHA.

I don't like the Niagara Falls plans either with not stopping at St Catharines. Feels like that is the bulk of the ridership actually being missed.
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I rode the weekend Niagara train almost every week over the summer, the crowds getting on at Niagara far exceeds the crowds getting on at St. Catharines.
 
reaperexpress said:
Holy crap, they absolutely gutted the Stouffville and Barrie weekend timetables, leaving gaping holes not filled by any replacement bus. For example, they cancelled the 19:13 and 20:13 trains, leaving you no way to get to the 20:12 and 21:12 route 70 buses.

View attachment 431641

The Barrie line was similarly gutted, yet bizarrely there are still those awkward trains heading to Barrie, which require tons of deadhead movements. Personally I would have kept the regular hourly service to Aurora and sacrificed the midday trips to Barrie, since at least there is a bus alternative. Even if there were a bus replacement to Union, getting a bus into Union station is a nightmare nowadays, so trains are essential.

View attachment 431642

As previously noted, the Niagara weekend train service has now been cut in half, operating with a single trainset rather than two. The morning departure from Toronto (10:07) seems a tad late, not arriving in Niagara until past noon. Hopefully when tourist season comes back around they will add an additional departure at 09:07.

Due to the temporary closure of St Catharines station, weekend GO trains now travel 77 km non-stop from Aldershot to Niagara Falls in 75 minutes, which is by far the longest station-to-station distance and time in the network.
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It looks like this was an error. The schedules have been updated with the missing trips and there is no reduction in service. I suspected it was an error since the buses holding for nonexistent trains didn't make any sense.
 
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