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GO Transit: Service thread (including extensions)

Some good London GO news: travel times are decreasing and trains are speeding up. YouTube’s ”The Taylor with Autism 2005”, who has filmed 99% of the PM London-bound GO trains to ever traverse the corridor noted that the September 29th GO from Kitchener to Stratford arrived 12 minutes EARLY. Evidently westbound trains are also arriving at Kitchener about 8 mins early.

After talking to the crews, they told him that two sections of track between Kitchener and Stratford that were limited to 30 MPH had their ”Rule 43” (speed limits due to poor track) lifted. One at “triple seven” (not sure where that is) and one at Shakespeare.

Obviously, trains can’t leave stations early. Hopefully, in the next set of schedules, we can see a 20 minute reduction (12 + 8) for the London GO trip (at least for Union-Stratford). It’s still not as fast as it should be, but for a Stratford to Union traveller, that’s 40 mins of saved time per round trip. Pretty good start if you ask me.


As an aside, Stratford seems to be punching far above its weight for GO ridership from anecdotal evidence and observation.
 
SaugeenJunction said:
After talking to the crews, they told him that two sections of track between Kitchener and Stratford that were limited to 30 MPH had their ”Rule 43” (speed limits due to poor track) lifted. One at “triple seven” (not sure where that is) and one at Shakespeare.
Click to expand...

“Triple 7” is the Road 102 road crossing at Mp 77.7, first crossing west of the Hiway 7/8 overpass.

- Paul
 
SaugeenJunction said:
Some good London GO news: travel times are decreasing and trains are speeding up. YouTube’s ”The Taylor with Autism 2005”, who has filmed 99% of the PM London-bound GO trains to ever traverse the corridor noted that the September 29th GO from Kitchener to Stratford arrived 12 minutes EARLY. Evidently westbound trains are also arriving at Kitchener about 8 mins early.

After talking to the crews, they told him that two sections of track between Kitchener and Stratford that were limited to 30 MPH had their ”Rule 43” (speed limits due to poor track) lifted. One at “triple seven” (not sure where that is) and one at Shakespeare.

Obviously, trains can’t leave stations early. Hopefully, in the next set of schedules, we can see a 20 minute reduction (12 + 8) for the London GO trip (at least for Union-Stratford). It’s still not as fast as it should be, but for a Stratford to Union traveller, that’s 40 mins of saved time per round trip. Pretty good start if you ask me.


As an aside, Stratford seems to be punching far above its weight for GO ridership from anecdotal evidence and observation.
Click to expand...
That's great to hear! That's real progress almost a year in.

I hope GO makes this permanent and can move up the London AM departure time to a later time.
 
Garuda said:
That's great to hear! That's real progress almost a year in.

I hope GO makes this permanent and can move up the London AM departure time to a later time.
Click to expand...
From this PC election announcement for $160 million of upgrades for the London service, I think it’s safe to say it will be made permanent.

The big question is if the Kitchener Line gets re-named to the “London Line”. The PCs seem to like re-naming things, like Old Elm GO and the Hazel McCallion LRT.
 
SaugeenJunction said:
From this PC election announcement for $160 million of upgrades for the London service, I think it’s safe to say it will be made permanent.

The big question is if the Kitchener Line gets re-named to the “London Line”. The PCs seem to like re-naming things, like Old Elm GO and the Hazel McCallion LRT.
Click to expand...
Both Stouffville and Richmond Hill lines have their terminal stations different from the line's name.
 
SaugeenJunction said:
Some good London GO news: travel times are decreasing and trains are speeding up.
Click to expand...

FWIW I kept an eye on VIA 87 tonight on the Moving Maps. The train made great time west of Georgetown... apart from one speed reduction at Acton (to 68 km/h) the train ran at roughly 111 km/h without reduction all the way to Guelph, arriving 3 minutes early. It ran just as well to Kitchener, arriving 8 minutes early..... but after an 11 minute pause at Kitchener, it ran at about 50 km/h all the way to the Nith River. It got up to around 96 km/h for a bit, but slowed west of Shakespeare with a couple very short sprints up to around 80 km/h. Arrival at Stratford was 13 minutes late.

Sure looks like a lot more track work is required to get things up to a reasonable speed west of Kitchener.

- Paul
 
crs1026 said:
FWIW I kept an eye on VIA 87 tonight on the Moving Maps. The train made great time west of Georgetown... apart from one speed reduction at Acton (to 68 km/h) the train ran at roughly 111 km/h without reduction all the way to Guelph, arriving 3 minutes early. It ran just as well to Kitchener, arriving 8 minutes early..... but after an 11 minute pause at Kitchener, it ran at about 50 km/h all the way to the Nith River. It got up to around 96 km/h for a bit, but slowed west of Shakespeare with a couple very short sprints up to around 80 km/h. Arrival at Stratford was 13 minutes late.

Sure looks like a lot more track work is required to get things up to a reasonable speed west of Kitchener.

- Paul
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Even if they could shave off 30min from the whole trip that would be excellent. How far does 160millon go towards track work? New ties and ballast for 20km?
 
Bordercollie said:
Even if they could shave off 30min from the whole trip that would be excellent. How far does 160millon go towards track work? New ties and ballast for 20km?
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You’d get much more than new ties and ballast for 20kms for $160 million. You can completely rebuild a trackbed from the sub-base up, including new rail for about $2 million per kilometre (conservative number). Below is my best, uneducated guess on what Metrolinx might spend that $160 million on.
  • Buying the Guelph Sub from CN between Kitchener and London. I can’t see the province wanting to sink $160 million into it without ownership. We also know from past VIA annual reports CN is possibly open to selling.
  • Raising the speed limit across the line to at least 100 km/h if not higher.
  • Major tie and track upgrades, likely continuous weld rail in many spots.
  • Permanent wheelchair ramps at stations and PRESTO readers at London, St. Marys and Stratford Stations.
  • Fixing the St. Mary’s Bridge so MP40s can use it. Only being able to run F59s on the London trains is a major limitation for future growth of the service right now.
  • Possibly a passing loop at Stratford Station with a second platform and extension of existing platform to accommodate GO train lengths. St. Marys has a super short platform, but due to low ridership I can’t see a reason to extend that platform in the foreseeable future.
  • Power hookups for locomotives at London Station so they don’t have to idle all night long like they do now.
In the medium term, London will need a GO layover if service is to increase in a big way. It’s too far from Kitchener to deadhead from existing layovers, and Stratford is also too far too (I’ve heard people suggest this before). Luckily, the Guelph Sub runs through many industrial areas in London, so finding a spot shouldn’t be hard.

Another blessing is that VIA Rail installed a modern signalling system across the Guelph Sub in the early 2010s. They were never able to run more trains on it, but that’s a win for GO now.

I would guess that this investment of $160 million will be a “first wave of upgrades”, and more investments will occur over this decade as ridership builds.
 
SaugeenJunction said:
You’d get much more than new ties and ballast for 20kms for $160 million. You can completely rebuild a trackbed from the sub-base up, including new rail for about $2 million per kilometre (conservative number). Below is my best, uneducated guess on what Metrolinx might spend that $160 million on.
  • Buying the Guelph Sub from CN between Kitchener and London. I can’t see the province wanting to sink $160 million into it without ownership. We also know from past VIA annual reports CN is possibly open to selling.
  • Raising the speed limit across the line to at least 100 km/h if not higher.
  • Major tie and track upgrades, likely continuous weld rail in many spots.
  • Permanent wheelchair ramps at stations and PRESTO readers at London, St. Marys and Stratford Stations.
  • Fixing the St. Mary’s Bridge so MP40s can use it. Only being able to run F59s on the London trains is a major limitation for future growth of the service right now.
  • Possibly a passing loop at Stratford Station with a second platform and extension of existing platform to accommodate GO train lengths. St. Marys has a super short platform, but due to low ridership I can’t see a reason to extend that platform in the foreseeable future.
  • Power hookups for locomotives at London Station so they don’t have to idle all night long like they do now.
In the medium term, London will need a GO layover if service is to increase in a big way. It’s too far from Kitchener to deadhead from existing layovers, and Stratford is also too far too (I’ve heard people suggest this before). Luckily, the Guelph Sub runs through many industrial areas in London, so finding a spot shouldn’t be hard.

Another blessing is that VIA Rail installed a modern signalling system across the Guelph Sub in the early 2010s. They were never able to run more trains on it, but that’s a win for GO now.
Click to expand...
Would CN sell it for 160 Millon but agree to pay for track slots and track slots that they dont get to choose?

I thought Stratford already has two tracks? They just need another platform.
 
Bordercollie said:
Would CN sell it for 160 Millon but agree to pay for track slots and track slots that they dont get to choose?

I thought Stratford already has two tracks? They just need another platform.
Click to expand...
CN sold the Georgetown (Silver) to Kitchener portion of the Guelph Sub to Metrolinx in 2014 for $76 million. I can’t see how the Kitchener to London portion would cost more. Railways are subject to property tax, and it would be a far better deal for CN to pay Metrolinx for track slots than pay for property tax and maintenance on the corridor. The corridor usually only sees 1 to 2 freights per day.

Regarding track slot times, I am sure that is something that would be negotiated in the event of a sale. These deals aren’t public, but the fact that CN can run Aldershot to Oakville Yard trains during busy times on the Lakeshore West Line tells me that CN reserves certain rights over timing.

Stratford would need some re-jigging for a second mainline track (switch locations etc) but it wouldn’t be hard. Stratford Yard is decently busy but nothing that would preclude a second platform.
 
^ Some of that money should go to adding more passing sidings with higher speed turnouts so that a more flexible service pattern can be implemented. $160M won’t get the line to hourly service, but bi-hourly 2WAD would be a huge step forward and an attainable goal.

Many crossings need to be refurbished. And there are several big bridges on that route - even if they are not weight restricted they will all need work to avoid becoming slow ordered. New rail throughout is needed, although some sections that are already cwr may be fine. Tie and stone work is a major item. I would be reluctant to see too much station and platform work, ML has a bad habit of overspending on these, and if only $160M is available then it needs to be applied judiciously….. overkill on stations could blow through a chunk of that very quickly.

Track, track, track…….now there’s a motto.

- Paul
 
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