GO Transit: Service thread (including extensions)

[crs1026]

The business case states the plan to run diesel bi-levels in 6-12 car trains - i.e., normal GO Trains.

I read the text to imply that they have doubts whether even with 2 units, they can manage 12 cars.

If these are to be over and above the Oshawa-Toronto LSE service, that’s not a problem. If these are part of that peak service, they will need the full 12 cars…. not necessarily for Bowmanville ridership, but to absorb the Oshawa-Pickering riders wanting an express ride to Union.

- Paul

 

[smallspy]

^Three percent grade at Oshawa, diesel operation possibly requiring shorter trainsets and/or two units.

- Paul

Those are pretty crappy exports to the PDF so we can't zoom in on the numbers, but those curve radii look awfully tight, too.

Also note that the grades seem to mostly be on curves, which is greatly going to increase resistance and drag. 2 units can do it, but will have a tough time of it.

So all-in-all, that's going to be over a mile of track to traverse at 10-15mph.

Dan

 

[ARG1]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1519793150071607300

I've yet to see anything from the feds other than a campaign promise...

 

[Allandale25]

^ technically they made the offer outside of the campaign period last year and I believe repeated it in a meeting with Mulroney this year.

 

[ARG1]

^ technically they made the offer outside of the campaign period last year and I believe repeated it in a meeting with Mulroney this year.

They key word here being "technically"

 

[crs1026]

^Just part of the gamesmanship between Ford and Ottawa. Ford takes plenty of shots at Ottawa for things he feels they ought to be doing. In this case, Ontario is clearly not ready to move on Milton, so Ottawa announces they are already to go and postures that it's Ontario holding things up.
Pure theatre, and likely aimed at making Ford's life difficult on the campaign trail.

- Paul

 

[nfitz]

Excellent service envisioned, from PDBC:

Every 2 hours on weekends isn't good. It's every 30 minutes now for Oshawa; and they've promised every 15 minutes. I wonder where the other 7 trains per 2 hours will stop.

 

[Allandale25]

^ what's also interesting is the feds have said that CP's Milton Line should get this trade coordinator funding that would help run more GO train service but haven't done the same for the portion of the Kitchener Line that's used by CN for their major trade corridor...

 

[nfitz]

They key word here being "technically"

As they've offered it as well since the election, that Ontario didn't react last fall seems moot. I guess it doesn't benefit many (any?) ridings that the PCs can win.

 

[anb]

Imagine we get an Orangeville Line using the Milton corridor up to Streetsville and then branching off to the OBRY. Now that there isn’t any use of that corridor as of now, we could convert it into an actual frequent all day line. If the whole Milton line gets all day service, then we can see Brampton have a 2nd GO line, and Union-Streetsville would possibly have subway like service.

15 min service on the Kitchener Line could be pushed even further to extend to Brampton GO due to the possibility of having an actual interchange station between it and the OBRY. Downtown Brampton riders then have 2 options to Union, to either head to Malton/York, or to go through Streetstown/Etobicoke and of course it’ll be more convenient for any riders traveling in between.

Now if only the government can actually see this butterfly effect of logic..

 

[EnviroTO]

If the federal government led the initiative to have rail infrastructure capable of handling frequent passenger service to Milton and Cambridge and were willing to pay for it fully, can you imagine the Ford government being an obstacle? No. But the feds just want to cut a check, not for the full amount, and let someone else deal with all the actual work and risk. They should probably focus on the HFR project and wait to be asked to fund what the city and province would like to prioritize if they aren't willing to pick up the whole tab.

 

[crs1026]

If the federal government led the initiative to have rail infrastructure capable of handling frequent passenger service to Milton and Cambridge and were willing to pay for it fully, can you imagine the Ford government being an obstacle? No. But the feds just want to cut a check, not for the full amount, and let someone else deal with all the actual work and risk. They should probably focus on the HFR project and wait to be asked to fund what the city and province would like to prioritize if they aren't willing to pick up the whole tab.

I expect that Ottawa and QP will have no difficulty in finding agreement on funding the Milton line.... when the time is right. Realistically, ML is not in a position to manage yet another project on top of all the things they have to do to get ready for Oncorr. Milton will require land acquisition, community relations, and much civil work, and a negotiation with CP .... so it will be ML, and not Oncorr, that has the bigger task to launch the Milton line when the time comes.
Ford actually has actually done a lot of things on the transit file, which he can point to in the election campaign. So the Liberals make an issue of the one thing he clearly hasn't done....hoping to spin away his credits and position him as not meeting the needs of the largest 905 City.
Like I said, pure theatre, with the election in mind.

- Paul

 

[Allandale25]

^ and the PDBC. Written in 2020 but only published now

About the 2041 Regional Transportation Plan

2041 Regional Transportation Plan

www.metrolinx.com

https://www.metrolinx.com/en/regionalplanning/projectevaluation/benefitscases/2020-04-29-Bowmanville-Rail-Service-Extension-PDBC-Final-Draft-v3-1.pdf

Re GM spur:

https://www.metrolinx.com/en/regionalplanning/projectevaluation/benefitscases/Bowmanville-Infrastructure-Refinement-Technical-Memorandum-post-PDBC-V17.pdf

I had to create a version of the plans released that (roughly) aligned.

 

[Allandale25]

Those are pretty crappy exports to the PDF so we can't zoom in on the numbers, but those curve radii look awfully tight, too.

Also note that the grades seem to mostly be on curves, which is greatly going to increase resistance and drag. 2 units can do it, but will have a tough time of it.

So all-in-all, that's going to be over a mile of track to traverse at 10-15mph.

Dan

How does it compare to the curve for the Bala Sub/Richmond Hill line as it joins the USRC near the Don River?

 

[nfitz]

Imagine we get an Orangeville Line using the Milton corridor up to Streetsville and then branching off to the OBRY. Now that there isn’t any use of that corridor as of now, we could convert it into an actual frequent all day line.

I'd think you'd get faster service to Orangeville by branching of the Kitchener line just west of Brampton GO. I don't think there's much worth serving in Mississauga or Brampton between Streetsville and Brampton GO. Other than Britannia, most of the potential station locations look difficult environmentally. And then there's the backtracking.