GO Transit: Service thread (including extensions)

[LNahid2000]

They are still very subtle about it. The schedule changes in 10 days yet they still have nothing on the website as of now. Usually they would give us at least 2-3 weeks in advance if its a big one, but not this time so I'm just hoping they don't do minor changes and technically "troll" us after waiting this long for an answer with the increased service concerns. As of what I think could happen if we get a big update, I already answered to that below.



They keep on tweeting that they would go back to pre pandemic levels of service, but I think its safe to say they wouldn't do it all at once.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1505982965389606916

For the September service increase, schedules were posted on the Thursday, 9 days before they went into effect.

 

[Bordercollie]

Express trains?

 

[Allandale25]

^ won't be for LSE since I believe they've said they can't come back until the OL/4th track work is done.

 

[Allandale25]

It's not at sitting on the stairs level yet, but it's getting close...

https://twitter.com/x/status/1506385130683781127

 

[jsjaker]

I just noticed a 10 car train on the Milton line. They've been 6 car trains during the pandemic. Is the increase happening on all the lines that were reduced?

 

[ShonTron]

I just noticed a 10 car train on the Milton line. They've been 6 car trains during the pandemic. Is the increase happening on all the lines that were reduced?

It’s a lot of work to shunt cars around to shorten/lengthen trains, so it’s probably happening in stages, with some trains already up to the new 10-car lengths.

I’d expect that most trains that had 10 or 12 cars will be restored to those lengths.

What I’d really like to see is GO Transit do is have train car length information at all stations, so passengers know in advance whether to spread out or head towards one end of the platform.

 

[smallspy]

I don't think a 2-hourly midday service from Old Cummer to Union would make any sense. The southern segment of the Richmond Hill line is notoriously slow, so it is only really competitive with the alternatives during peak periods when the DVP is jammed and the Yonge subway is overcrowded. The GO train takes 25 minutes to get from Oriole to Union, which is exactly the same time as the subway from York Mills. Currently half of the 401 GO bus routes go to York Mills, while the other half go to Finch via Sheppard-Yonge, which is 28 minutes from Union.

Unfortunately, this is not a situation where "making sense" enters into the equation - at least, not in the sense that you are thinking.

Prior to COVID, planning staff were tasked with increasing the number of weekly rail trips by something like 25% year-over-year. This is why we saw such silly exercises such as the conversion of some deadhead trips to express trips ostensibly going from nowhere to nowhere at times that were useless for most (and in some cases, all). It didn't make sense from a system-planning point-of-view, and it didn't even make sense from a staffing or payroll point-of-view - but they added trips to the weekly/monthly/annual totals, and so they went forward with them.

In this case, however, another of GO's long-stated internal goals has been to reduce the number of bus trips to Union Station. The portion of routes on the Gardiner Expressway and especially the DVP have long been held as the biggest causes of delays to bus timetables, so getting the various bus routes to link to trains - where GO has the ability to create their own timetables and not have to worry about traffic - would go a long way towards this.

Even if you incorrectly assume that everyone is going specifically to Union Station you'd still be better off dropping Richmond Hill and 401 East GO bus passengers at York Mills than at Oriole.

View attachment 387019

Line 1 runs every 4 minutes, so including 0 to 4 minutes waiting and 2 minutes walking between the platorms, it would take 27 to 31 minutes to get to Union after being dropped off at York Mills.
Timed transfers from GO buses to GO trains are scheduled with a 15-minute transfer time to minimise the risk of missing a very infrequent train. So it would take 40 minutes to get to Union after being dropped off at Oriole.

Even though it would take 401 East and Richmond Hill buses 7 minutes longer to drive to York Mills than to Oriole, York Mills would still be 2 to 6 minutes faster for the passengers headed to Union, and much much faster for passengers headed anywhere else. Sure, some passengers might still choose to take the GO train for its superior comfort, but that small benefit definitely wouldn't justify the 5 minute-delay that serving Oriole would incur for 401 East GO bus customers.

You've forgotten about one small but important manner.

Transferring to GO would incur a fare penalty. Staying on GO would not. In spite of all of the improvements that have been made to connectivity between systems, this is still a huge concern.

This is totally a function of politics. Ml is explicitly forbidden to announce service changes until the Minister has had their kick at photo ops.

Ml is a performing arts company that runs trains and buses on the side. Only Mirvish fills as many seats in Toronto every day.

- Paul

Absolutely and totally correct. GO and Metrolinx no longer share even the news of impending service changes or improvements with the connecting transit services until the public release. This means that frequently those services are left trying to figure out how to make the required changes on their ends within their own restrictive frameworks. And in some cases, they can't for weeks or months after GO has made the changes - meaning that the rider suffers.

Dan

 

[Willybru21]

It's not at sitting on the stairs level yet, but it's getting close...

https://twitter.com/x/status/1506385130683781127

That article only mentions 10 car trains, I’m worried that they won’t be increasing them further than that, even though the Lakeshore Lines need the extra capacity.

 

[ARG1]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1506649785817870336

 

[reaperexpress]

Unfortunately, this is not a situation where "making sense" enters into the equation - at least, not in the sense that you are thinking.

Prior to COVID, planning staff were tasked with increasing the number of weekly rail trips by something like 25% year-over-year. This is why we saw such silly exercises such as the conversion of some deadhead trips to express trips ostensibly going from nowhere to nowhere at times that were useless for most (and in some cases, all). It didn't make sense from a system-planning point-of-view, and it didn't even make sense from a staffing or payroll point-of-view - but they added trips to the weekly/monthly/annual totals, and so they went forward with them.

Even if they were instructed to spam service wherever possible, it still seems like a bizarre use of resources. That same trainset could just as easily provide 2-hourly service from Union to Bramalea, in addition to the existing hourly service to Mount Pleasant. And of course a second trainset would fill it out to full 30 min combined service as far as Bramalea.

In this case, however, another of GO's long-stated internal goals has been to reduce the number of bus trips to Union Station. The portion of routes on the Gardiner Expressway and especially the DVP have long been held as the biggest causes of delays to bus timetables, so getting the various bus routes to link to trains - where GO has the ability to create their own timetables and not have to worry about traffic - would go a long way towards this.

My point is that even if you truncate the Richmond Hill buses outside of downtown it still doesn't make sense to run off-peak Richmond Hill trains.

Transferring to GO would incur a fare penalty. Staying on GO would not. In spite of all of the improvements that have been made to connectivity between systems, this is still a huge concern.

Richmond Hill to Oriole costs $4.63, and Richmond Hill to Union costs $6.86. that's a difference of $2.23, which is more than the $1.55 that the TTC would cost if the former 50% GO co-fare were still in effect.

GO and Metrolinx no longer share even the news of impending service changes or improvements with the connecting transit services until the public release. This means that frequently those services are left trying to figure out how to make the required changes on their ends within their own restrictive frameworks. And in some cases, they can't for weeks or months after GO has made the changes - meaning that the rider suffers.

That is absolute insanity. Sounds like we should bring this prohibition of inter-agency cooperation more into the public eye.

 

[joet00]

I've always understood 15-min service on the Barrie line was planned through Aurora. However, more than a few times now, I see the northern terminus described as Bradford. The most recent example is from this week's MX blog post about Rutherford.

As part of the GO Expansion program, Metrolinx is working to bring customers 15-minute, all-day, two-way service between Bradford GO Station and Union Station in the future.

For comparison, this PIC Storyboard from 2016 shows 15-minute service only as far as Aurora (slide 3), explaining the third track (slide 5).

I'm all for this extension of 2WAD service, but curious about the new plan. The MX webpage is thin on details, with no new attachments since 2019.

Was anything made publicly available around this? Any other changes on other lines of a similar nature?

 

[Coolstar]

I've always understood 15-min service on the Barrie line was planned through Aurora. However, more than a few times now, I see the northern terminus described as Bradford. The most recent example is from this week's MX blog post about Rutherford.



For comparison, this PIC Storyboard from 2016 shows 15-minute service only as far as Aurora (slide 3), explaining the third track (slide 5).

I'm all for this extension of 2WAD service, but curious about the new plan. The MX webpage is thin on details, with no new attachments since 2019.

Was anything made publicly available around this? Any other changes on other lines of a similar nature?

Yep. There was a blog post about it back in the summer.

Metrolinx Press Room

Find the latest Metrolinx news, project updates and more.

blog.metrolinx.com

 

[innsertnamehere]

which is a very good move - Bradford isn't as much of a key destination but ending before Newmarket was always a bit of a mistake if you ask me.

 

[north-of-anything]

Newmarket is the real key destination, but bringing 15-minute service up to Bradford makes sense for two key reasons:
1. Right now bus transfers to/from the 68 are a crapshoot as to whether you'll have to get off at Aurora or East Gwillimbury, depending on the time of day. Making all of those transfers at East Gwillimbury would reduce confusion and make trips faster.
2. There's a storage or layover yard proposed a few kilometers north of Bradford Station, in addition to the existing storage tracks just north of the station. Bringing service up to Bradford cuts down on deadheading.

 

[innsertnamehere]

From what I recall Metrolinx is planning 30-minute service to Barrie still - bus transfers to continue further north won’t really happen, you’ll just have to catch every other train.

Extending it to Bradford is definitely a nice bonus, but the key destination is and always has been Newmarket / East Gwillimbury, which services over 100,000 people.