GO Transit: Service thread (including extensions)

[Garuda]

There will be. But that won't happen until the new year.

Dan

This is very optimistic in me but if London becomes permanent, Metrolinx could run weekend service from London via Kitchener up until Georgetown. Thereby not having to negotiate with CN.

The connection from Georgetown to Union would SUCK though.

Again it’s not a realistic service.

 

[lrt's friend]

Another tick mark for the Conservative party before the next election. We promise Go service to Niagara Falls. One round trip, done. We promise train service to London. One round trip, done. It doesn't matter if the service is efficient or not terribly useful for many people. The pilot will probably last until after the next election.

Will the Conservatives do the hard work? Actually spending a pile of money to improve the rail lines. I doubt it.

 

[robmausser]

The only way I see the London pilot go past just being a pilot is after the Kitchener Line track upgrades are complete, the time is reduced to 3 hours. This might also require buying the rest of the Gexr sub and upgrading it as well. However I could see that the pilot is extended with the understanding that those upgrades will take place.

 

[Bordercollie]

Nice to see that GO transit has taken initiative to serve Consumers RD.
It would be nice if they could figure out a way to connect with Don Mills Station directly without having to transfer to another bus.
Any idea what the ridership is like to those places?
Does it increase the trip time?

 

[crs1026]

Ah that's great to hear. I wasn't aware that the historic line speed was 80 mph (129 km/h). If tie replacement is all it takes to get it up to 80 mph, then that does sound worthwhile. If the current track structure is in decent condition, then a 95 mph upgrade could be postponed until it needs more serious work.

What is the scenario you're referencing where a 95 mph standard would not be attainable? Although some of the curves do indeed limit speeds to 80 mph or lower, that shouldn't preclude a higher track speed on the extremely long straight segments between stations.

A small nitpick - the OCD in me just had to go pull some old timetables to verify this - A sampling of employee timetables from 1962, 1978 and 1993 all point to the speed limit being 70 mph.

Going back to 1957, the speed limit west of Stratford was only 60 mph.

Doesn't change the point which is - that the line might be able to be modestly repaired to get speeds up to something competitive. Personally I would like to see the jointed rail replaced, but it's not that badly worn so not necessarily an impediment to raising the speeds considerably.

Looking at the many long tangent sections and the relatively gentle curves, there is certainly reason to believe that 90 or more could be achieved some day. Just bring money.

- Paul

 

[Bordercollie]

A small nitpick - the OCD in me just had to go pull some old timetables to verify this - A sampling of employee timetables from 1962, 1978 and 1993 all point to the speed limit being 70 mph.

Going back to 1957, the speed limit west of Stratford was only 60 mph.

Doesn't change the point which is - that the line might be able to be modestly repaired to get speeds up to something competitive. Personally I would like to see the jointed rail replaced, but it's not that badly worn so not necessarily an impediment to raising the speeds considerably.

Looking at the many long tangent sections and the relatively gentle curves, there is certainly reason to believe that 90 or more could be achieved some day. Just bring money.

- Paul

70MPH is much better then the 15 we have now.

 

[ssiguy2]

What are the odds that the London GO train route makes it past pilot?

Somewhere between zero & nil which is what I think ML & QP are hoping for so they can say they gave it the old college try but Londoners didn't want it so they can put the matter to rest. It's bad enough that this line was obviously drawn up by a Torontonian who knows nothing about London {and probably cares even less} but to add insult to injury, this London "service" is Toronto focused as it does absolutely NOTHING for London commuters.

Even if you can get someone to take a ridiculous 4 hour train ride to Toronto as opposed to a 2 and a half ride on on more comfortable VIA or even a faster bus trip, how can they do it? The buses in London don't run that early which means in order for you to get to the one train a day you have to either take an expensive cab or drive to the station and pay a crapload for an entire days parking. That basic logistical reality will cause the service to be a complete white elephant.

The positive ONLY thing that can come out of this is that even the threat of GO to London maybe enough to force VIA to extend it's HFR service to London which of course it should be. This non-existent service is no threat to VIA but if GO decides it also wants to try the faster and more direct southern route then it would blow a whole in VIA's pocketbook.. Going to Quebec City before London is politics at work as London is a busier station and the 4th busiest in the entire system and that is a market they cannot afford to relinquish.

 

[Urban Sky]

Going to Quebec City before London is politics at work as London is a busier station and the 4th busiest in the entire system and that is a market they cannot afford to relinquish.

HFR was never supposed to go beyond Montreal and Quebec, but focussed lobbying by political and business leaders in Trois-Rivières and Quebec succeeded in placing these two cities on the map, whereas articles and editorials in the London Free Press relentlessly bashed VIA for having the audacity to propose an intercity passenger rail project in the same province as Wynne's vanity HSR project, which was presented the same year as HFR (2014). Southwestern Ontario lost seven years because they put all their eggs in the same basket when they could (and should) have hedged their bets...

 

[Bordercollie]

Somewhere between zero & nil which is what I think ML & QP are hoping for so they can say they gave it the old college try but Londoners didn't want it so they can put the matter to rest. It's bad enough that this line was obviously drawn up by a Torontonian who knows nothing about London {and probably cares even less} but to add insult to injury, this London "service" is Toronto focused as it does absolutely NOTHING for London commuters.

Even if you can get someone to take a ridiculous 4 hour train ride to Toronto as opposed to a 2 and a half ride on on more comfortable VIA or even a faster bus trip, how can they do it? The buses in London don't run that early which means in order for you to get to the one train a day you have to either take an expensive cab or drive to the station and pay a crapload for an entire days parking. That basic logistical reality will cause the service to be a complete white elephant.

The positive ONLY thing that can come out of this is that even the threat of GO to London maybe enough to force VIA to extend it's HFR service to London which of course it should be. This non-existent service is no threat to VIA but if GO decides it also wants to try the faster and more direct southern route then it would blow a whole in VIA's pocketbook.. Going to Quebec City before London is politics at work as London is a busier station and the 4th busiest in the entire system and that is a market they cannot afford to relinquish.

The service is not meant to take a 4 hour commute to Toronto. That's not why people would take this train.

 

[smallspy]

Ah that's great to hear. I wasn't aware that the historic line speed was 80 mph (129 km/h). If tie replacement is all it takes to get it up to 80 mph, then that does sound worthwhile. If the current track structure is in decent condition, then a 95 mph upgrade could be postponed until it needs more serious work.

What is the scenario you're referencing where a 95 mph standard would not be attainable? Although some of the curves do indeed limit speeds to 80 mph or lower, that shouldn't preclude a higher track speed on the extremely long straight segments between stations.

There are absolutely geometry issues that will come into play - both horizontal and vertical. Structures, too.

I'm not for a second suggesting that 95/100 isn't attainable - but getting there will likely be a whole different scale of expenditure versus simply fixing up the line to where it was before.

Dan

 

[wopchop]

Some people are reading far too much into this extension.
It was not "designed" as a Toronto centric service.
It was clearly designed to be a quick political win, which means low cost. As a consequence of that, they simply extended a train that already runs Kitchener to Toronto.
Do people really believe that some people at Metrolinx sat in a room and said to themselves "how can we serve London commuter traffic?" and came up with this?
Seriously, an announcement like this is just a way for the ruling party to get around campaign spending limits.

Honestly, I like that this is the pilot service. Because if even one person takes this service from London to Kitchener or Toronto, they should begin track upgrades/ construction immediately.

 

[Bordercollie]

Some people are reading far too much into this extension.
It was not "designed" as a Toronto centric service.
It was clearly designed to be a quick political win, which means low cost. As a consequence of that, they simply extended a train that already runs Kitchener to Toronto.
Do people really believe that some people at Metrolinx sat in a room and said to themselves "how can we serve London commuter traffic?" and came up with this?
Seriously, an announcement like this is just a way for the ruling party to get around campaign spending limits.

Honestly, I like that this is the pilot service. Because if even one person takes this service from London to Kitchener or Toronto, they should begin track upgrades/ construction immediately.

I guess they have more votes out west than up north.

 

[wopchop]

I guess they have more votes out west than up north.

It almost doesn't even matter where the work is happening.
It gets in the news cycle. Especially with an election year coming up, the ruling party wants to project a "working for you" "getting things done" culture.
Hell if Del Duca was still Minister, this would be four announcements in London, St Mary's, Stratford AND Kitchener.

The North is a different story for sure.

 

[ssiguy2]

The service is not meant to take a 4 hour commute to Toronto. That's not why people would take this train.

So exactly why are they suppose to take this train? It certainly does squat for commuter because it LEAVES the city in the morning as opposed to the other way around. Can you imagine Toronto having it's GO commuter lines LEAVING the city in the morning? Of course not but apparently ML thinks this is how Londoners commute.

 

[W. K. Lis]

The service is not meant to take a 4 hour commute to Toronto. That's not why people would take this train.

From link.

Thirty six years in the Senate, Biden never lived in Washington.

Why? Biden lost his wife and daughter to a tragic car accident in 1972. He was sworn in to the Senate at his sons' bedsides—they had been critically injured in the crash but recovered.

So Biden made the choice to spend four hours a day in transit so his sons wouldn’t be uprooted — so he could be there for them as they grew up

https://twitter.com/x/status/1281602829443112966

I think that some people would commute 4 hours a day.