GO Transit: Construction Projects (Metrolinx, various)

[Bordercollie]

^ So between the Don Spur connection to the Belleville Sub and the Havelock Sub, you're saying in theory HFR could use the existing signaling?

Someone was commenting that the don spur being only single tracked would limit the number of trains. The portion past the Don Valley trestle could be double tracked. And the mouth of the spur is also double tracked. There is space to add more tracks between the Don Spur and the Agincourt yard but it's going to require some new bridges. One over E.T. Seton Park, another over Eglinton, and then over the DVP, another over the valley. And then you would want to take the North side of the current tracks through the yard to the Havelock Sub. I don't think two tracks is enough for CP freight and hourly VIA trains.

 

[Allandale25]

Urban Toronto gets answers! HT @JasonParis

 

[smallspy]

I guess Rosedale siding wasn't appropriate for long term? It has easy access to Bayview and may be wide enough for 3-4 tracks (for a short distance).

Rosedale will be converted into double track and lengthened to the south. It can't be lengthened to the north however without some very serious earthworks, and thus cost.

That said, much like with Track 0 east of Union Station in the USRC, they do plan on staging some trains for an hour or two at a time on that double-track.

Anyway, the other Don Valley location was not good, imo

Completely agree, especially considering that there was some land further north on that same line that Metrolinx already owns a portion of (and could likely expand without much difficulty).

Is there no space for another track here?

"Edit* there should be enough space to extend the siding to the Korean cultural Center. Up around York Mills there is space for 3 tracks but the bridge before Oriole Station only supports two tracks. North of there the bridge over Sheppard is wide enough for two tracks until the trestle over the ravine.
If they need the siding at York Mills for storage they could extend the double track that ends near Oriole and extend it north to Sheppard which would allow trains to pass. The problem is that for two trains to occupy the station you would need a second platform.

To the north of York Mills, maybe one track, once the paving around the track is taken into account.

But to south, Metrolinx owns all of what used to be a little CN freight yard. The bike path may need to be shifted west several feet, but the ROW is probably not too far away from 75 feet wide for much of it, almost all the way down to Bond.

oh god. You think it was nimbys that led to this decision? Why?

100% it was. Because Metrolinx.

From an operational standpoint, this new location is far, far worse. It will require a more fuel use, it will require longer crew shifts, and it will tie up a single-track mainline.

Dan

 

[Allandale25]

^ Great insights as always Dan. Any thought on how this could complicated the Northlander? Will they have add any sidings between Rossdale and this new Layover near York Mills?

 

[Northern Light]

Just to give people a sense of the proposed new yard location along the Richmond Hill GO line, and its size/room for tracks:

Pink lines are property lines, the distance across the bulk of the Mx space is ~33M wide; there is a brief stretch to the south of that line where it widens out of ~48M, but it isn't terribly long.

They maintain that 30M+ width for a distance of ~1.4km

 

[ARG1]

100% it was. Because Metrolinx.

And not VIA?

 

[smallspy]

^ Great insights as always Dan. Any thought on how this could complicated the Northlander? Will they have add any sidings between Rossdale and this new Layover near York Mills?

I don't think it will adversely affect the Northlander, so long as GO's schedule doesn't greatly increase on the Richmond Hill Line - which looks like it won't anytime soon.

Dan

 

[crs1026]

^ So between the Don Spur connection to the Belleville Sub and the Havelock Sub, you're saying in theory HFR could use the existing signaling?

No, I was thinking that if a junction was built between GO Stouffville and CP, whatever brand new signalling is currently being installed between Kennedy and Agincourt on the Stouffville line in the double tracking project would have to be reworked to build in a new junction. New approach signals and/or new signal spacing would be needed. Easy to do (just more money) but definitely rework of what is being built now.

The Don Branch lost its signalling years ago, and would no doubt be resignalled if HxR goes that way.

- Paul

 

[canarob]

The big advantage of GO Stouffville for HFR would be the connection at Kennedy making it a true "Union East," but otherwise it would be good to limit the corridor to GO traffic (and freight late at night).

 

[innsertnamehere]

HFR won't want a stop that close to Toronto anyway.

It may want a suburban station to provide an area for parking, but that won't be at Kennedy. Probably somewhere up by the 407, if anywhere, for a second GTA stop.

 

[Allandale25]

^ Previous conceptual HFR maps have shown an "Eglinton" station.

 

[Bordercollie]

No, I was thinking that if a junction was built between GO Stouffville and CP, whatever brand new signalling is currently being installed between Kennedy and Agincourt on the Stouffville line in the double tracking project would have to be reworked to build in a new junction. New approach signals and/or new signal spacing would be needed. Easy to do (just more money) but definitely rework of what is being built now.

The Don Branch lost its signalling years ago, and would no doubt be resignalled if HxR goes that way.

- Paul

The issue is that the Don Branch is on the south side and to get to the Havelock Sub they need to cross over to the north side. This will impede freight traffic.

 

[nfitz]

I don't think it will adversely affect the Northlander, so long as GO's schedule doesn't greatly increase on the Richmond Hill Line - which looks like it won't anytime soon.

The recent (February) Metrolinx report on the various GO stations actually predicted ridership to decrease on the Richmond Hill line ... (2040s?). I suspect from some other numbers, that there's a weakness in the modelling for remote and infrequent service - but a service increase seems very unlikely - at least south of 407.

HFR won't want a stop that close to Toronto anyway.

If the service really is frequent, then one could have more than one suburban station, with different trains stopping at different stations. As they'll be a stone's throw from Sheppard East station, where Line 2 and Line 4 (and maybe even Line 7) will intersect, that seems like a decent spot. Maybe 407 as well.

^ Previous conceptual HFR maps have shown an "Eglinton" station.

Which would be tough topographically. I'd put my money at Don Mills Road, with a new Ontario Line station.- though it's a bit close to Science Centre station, and would require a lot of redevelopment around there. Another option is that if they put a new Line 4 station half-way between Midland and Brimley - which might make more sense than trying to sick a station at either road, and simply have one station between Kennedy/Agincourt and Sheppard East (McCowan). But we are approaching fantasy land.

The issue is that the Don Branch is on the south side and to get to the Havelock Sub they need to cross over to the north side. This will impede freight traffic.

I don't see a fly-over (or under) as a show stopper. If GO can build them, so can VIA. If they use Stouffville, they are also going to have to cross the CP tracks somehow, or have a massive or very tight curve on the north side, given the geometry up there; not to mention the issues at Scarborough Junction, and the loss of the easy ability to add a 5th track between the Don and Pape with the Ontario Line taking the last two possible tracks.

 

[Bordercollie]

The recent (February) Metrolinx report on the various GO stations actually predicted ridership to decrease on the Richmond Hill line ... (2040s?). I suspect from some other numbers, that there's a weakness in the modelling for remote and infrequent service - but a service increase seems very unlikely - at least south of 407.

If the service really is frequent, then one could have more than one suburban station, with different trains stopping at different stations. As they'll be a stone's throw from Sheppard East station, where Line 2 and Line 4 (and maybe even Line 7) will intersect, that seems like a decent spot. Maybe 407 as well.

Which would be tough topographically. I'd put my money at Don Mills Road, with a new Ontario Line station.- though it's a bit close to Science Centre station, and would require a lot of redevelopment around there. Another option is that if they put a new Line 4 station half-way between Midland and Brimley - which might make more sense than trying to sick a station at either road, and simply have one station between Kennedy/Agincourt and Sheppard East (McCowan). But we are approaching fantasy land.

I don't see a fly-over (or under) as a show stopper. If GO can build them, so can VIA. If they use Stouffville, they are also going to have to cross the CP tracks somehow, or have a massive or very tight curve on the north side, given the geometry up there; not to mention the issues at Scarborough Junction, and the loss of the easy ability to add a 5th track between the Don and Pape with the Ontario Line taking the last two possible tracks.

There are plans to run two day all day trains to Old Cummer. Ideally to Langstaff as an alternate to line 1.

 

[nfitz]

There are plans to run two day all day trains to Old Cummer. Ideally to Langstaff as an alternate to line 1.

Where?