GO Transit: Construction Projects (Metrolinx, various)

[crs1026]

Did they not purposefully leave this gap between the bridges over the CN tracks and the location of the new GO/VIA station? Would there not be enough room to put one track (green line) between the two structures? I'm just going by what I observe but it looks like they've built both structures to accommodate a pedestrian bridge to connect them (red lines). Thoughts @crs1026 @smallspy ?

I have no official documentation, but at the sidewalk level I would have to agree that the space is there and nothing would preclude putting a walkway across the two structures. They may indeed have been designed with that in mind. (Don't think of it as an overhead walkway, think of it and the stairways on either end as a traffic calming zone for the afternoon sprinters who dash off the GO trains ;-) )

The original EA of 2011 recommended that the Bowmanville line bypass the new station altogether. No doubt ML has rethought that, and perhaps that's not a bad thing. However, when one looks back at all the acrimony about that decision over the years of planning - it was hotly debated in the community - and the money spent to acquire and bank the land for the Thornton station, one realises that much time, effort, and money is being put to waste by redoing the plan. Another example of transit planning in the GTA cycling over and over.

I'm thinking that rather than send my 10 questions to the Loyal Opposition, who are pretty anemic on the whole topic, it might interest someone like Sue Anne Levy of the Toronto Sun more. I can't wait to see ML's four options and their rationale for why the 2011 EA got the routing wrong.

- Paul

 

[Allandale25]

^ What about this scenario: the EA got the routing right right routing - bridge over the 401/Oshawa GO parking lot - and the new government doesn't wanting to spend the level of money it was projected to cost. The extension was estimated to have cost $550 million in 2014 dollars. No indication on if that's a Class 5 estimate? So is it possible that the new government discovered the cost was well above $550 million? Maybe CP demanded more?

 

[crs1026]

^ What about this scenario: the EA got the routing right right routing - bridge over the 401/Oshawa GO parking lot - and the new government doesn't wanting to spend the level of money it was projected to cost. The extension was estimated to have cost $550 million in 2014 dollars. No indication on if that's a Class 5 estimate? So is it possible that the new government discovered the cost was well above $550 million? Maybe CP demanded more?

Very likely - and there may have been some further dominoes. The plan was $550M for 4-5 peak trains each way, as promised by Wynne/Del Duca. That's a lot of money on a per-seat basis, especially when many of those riders are existing GO customers who already board at Oshawa. I can believe that the new Business Case approach which Verster has implemented found a low payback on that proposal relative to other expansion projects.

The return on investment would rise considerably if all day service were offered.... especially with the added highway construction and congestion that has arisen in Durham since 2011.

The other change may have been related to CP's service to GM Oshawa. The "diverge east of Oshawa GO" routing would have conflicted with CP service to GM... but that's moot now that GM has decided to close the plant. Perhaps CP's view of the "diverge east" routing may have changed, and the mitigating infrastructure it could have asked ML to build is no longer needed.... whereas the "preferred" bridge may have become more costly since 2014.

The cost projections will change somewhat with 2WAD, as some additional track may be needed in places over what CP required for the original peak service plan. It wouldn't surprise me if a new alignment is proposed that crosses from CN to CP further east than central Oshawa. I wonder what profit Ontario might reap by selling the banked land around the Thornton side..... or is there potential for litigation from those who will feel "jerked around" by a change in plans.

So, yeah, the new plan may indeed be a better plan..... but what a costly and circuitous route to get here.

Future plans of GO station halt development

Lakeshore East GO train service expanding 20 km to Bowmanville by 2024

Oshawa Knob Hill Farms property expropriated for new GO station

- Paul

 

[Allandale25]

^ Thanks, Paul. Just so I'm clear the ""diverge east" routing" is the route indicated by the blue arrows, right?

 

[crs1026]

^Correct. It's actually an existing spur line, with an existing rail bridge over the 401, which CP uses to serve GM Oshawa. So long as that freight business exists, I'm sure CP would have declared it an operational non-starter. Auto business is just too important to the railways to let GO get in the way.

- Paul

 

[Allandale25]

^ What about this scenario: the EA got the routing right right routing - bridge over the 401/Oshawa GO parking lot - and the new government doesn't wanting to spend the level of money it was projected to cost. The extension was estimated to have cost $550 million in 2014 dollars. No indication on if that's a Class 5 estimate? So is it possible that the new government discovered the cost was well above $550 million? Maybe CP demanded more?

View attachment 184508

The local PC MPPs are claiming the cost doubled from the above and the timeline would be longer.

Durham MPP urges transport minister to make Bowmanville GO a priority

Yet another bump in the road, or tracks, for the Bowmanville GO extension. Durham MPP Lindsey Park says the new leaders at Metrolinx have discovered some maj

www.durhamradionews.com

 

[drum118]

 

[bbanner102097]

I'm thinking that rather than send my 10 questions to the Loyal Opposition, who are pretty anemic on the whole topic, it might interest someone like Sue Anne Levy of the Toronto Sun more. I can't wait to see ML's four options and their rationale for why the 2011 EA got the routing wrong.

Sue Anne would be the perfect journalist to take a deep dive into how tax dollars and schedules are being squandered at ML.

 

[Northern Light]

Sue Anne would be the perfect journalist to take a deep dive into how tax dollars and schedules are being squandered at ML.

Very few people here, or anywhere that matters would suggest Ms. Levy was a journalist.

 

[TransitBart]

Very few people here, or anywhere that matters would suggest Ms. Levy was a journalist.

I’m not sure that’s true. I don’t like plenty of what I read, but that doesn’t make the writer not a journalist. It makes them the writer of that with which one disagrees. Is she a ‘just the facts’ gal, no. She’s an editorialist and she has an opinion. Or two dozen.

 

[bbanner102097]

^^Too funny. I'm not even a fan/reader of Levy or her rag but thought she would be an ideal journalist to dig into the years of waste that aren't hidden very far beneath the surface. If not her, insert your own preferred person for the job...the story is (should be) the same, no matter the political bent of the writer.

Would you mind pointing me to one of these other anonymous Internet forums that, in your opinion, don't matter? While I really like this one, I've always found it useful to see different sides to a story or a topic before I formulate my own original thoughts and opinions.

Actually, ignore that last paragraph...it comes across as self-important and off-topic!

 

[dowlingm]

I find myself wondering how much track expansion could be done on the CPR west of the overpass if the whole idea of branching LSE into Bowmanville was scrapped in favour of running trains through North Whitby and the southernmost part of Agincourt Yard. Would be slow in places given the curving nature of the alignment, but would be essentially insulated from any issues/blockages on the LSE. (Might help VIA HFR if it meant Don Branch reopened to traffic on MLX dime )

 

[Northern Light]

^^Too funny. I'm not even a fan/reader of Levy or her rag but thought she would be an ideal journalist to dig into the years of waste that aren't hidden very far beneath the surface. If not her, insert your own preferred person for the job...the story is (should be) the same, no matter the political bent of the writer.

Would you mind pointing me to one of these other anonymous Internet forums that, in your opinion, don't matter? While I really like this one, I've always found it useful to see different sides to a story or a topic before I formulate my own original thoughts and opinions.

Actually, ignore that last paragraph...it comes across as self-important and off-topic!

If you read my signature, my politics are neither partisan, nor those of an ideologue

I'm happy to hear thoughtful opinions from across the poltical spectrum. .

However, I don't consider Ms. Levy a journalist, if by that one means a person who investigates an issue through quality research in an effort to expose the truth as supported by the facts.

I also don't believe she's capable of that, she's not merely an ideologue, she comes across as less than concerned with the facts and likely incapable of perceiving truth.. In a career as long as hers, she's bound to have said one or two accurate things over the years, but I would have no confidence the number was any higher.

 

[crs1026]

I also don't believe she's capable of that, she's not merely an ideologue, she comes across as less than concerned with the facts and likely incapable of perceiving truth.. In a career as long as hers, she's bound to have said one or two accurate things over the years, but I would have no confidence the number was any higher.

Sue Anne’s role is not to uncover truth, it’s closer to being a windvane that resonates on a given note in even the lightest breeze - regardless of which way the wind blows.

A Sun staffer of my acquaintance corrected me one time, he emphasised that she is a “collumnist” rather than a “journalist”. I guess even the Sun appreciates the difference.

The painful part is, she hits truth just often enough to perform a useful function. Heck, even the best MLB batters only connect one time in three or four.

- Paul

 

[crs1026]

One encouraging sign of progress is that the 401/409 tunnel is definitely underway. These shots are from Islington Avenue today.

One can see how the original plan aimed for four tracks - these are roughed in east of the Humberview interlocking, over to just short of Weston Station. There will be some interesting shifting of the three existing tracks once the tunnel is completed.

The Etobicoke North platform is visible beyond the underpass, and one can see that this station will have to be removed once track is laid through the new tunnel.

- Paul