GO Transit: Construction Projects (Metrolinx, various)

[SaugeenJunction]

Dec 26
Hamilton CP Junction Expansion

The existing CN Bridge has been rebuilt with footing to go in for 2 more tracks to the north.

Thanks Drum for the update. Is there a timeline for the "2 more tracks to the north"?

 

[drum118]

Thanks Drum for the update. Is there a timeline for the "2 more tracks to the north"?

They should be in place when West Harbour GO Station goes fully into service late 2016. The fun will be cutting into CP Tracks as relocating the tower mast to the west of the current location.

Not sure if there is a plan to run track 1 across CN Bayview cut off tracks that will allow for 3 tracks in place of the current 2 as well getting CP/CN/GO track 1 cutting right after the crossing the CN cut off tracks

 

[Jonny5]

Dec 26
Hamilton CP Junction Expansion

The existing CN Bridge has been rebuilt with footing to go in for 2 more tracks to the north.

What is it that happens at this junction that occasionally blocks all GO trains from leaving Hamilton, whether originating at West Harbour or Hunter Street, and is the purpose of those two new tracks to resolve the problem?

I recall about 6 weeks ago one occasion where trains originating in Hamilton were delayed 50 minutes because of a "freight train reversing," according to GO Tracker.

 

[drum118]

Dec 26
More up on site

 

[crs1026]

What is it that happens at this junction that occasionally blocks all GO trains from leaving Hamilton, whether originating at West Harbour or Hunter Street, and is the purpose of those two new tracks to resolve the problem?

I recall about 6 weeks ago one occasion where trains originating in Hamilton were delayed 50 minutes because of a "freight train reversing," according to GO Tracker.

I can't speak to a specific issue or date, but the issue generically is simply that there are points where CN and CP freights can conflict with the GO trains' routing. On occasion, this happens.

There has been talk of building a flyover/under so that GO trains have a fool-proof route that freights can't ever block. However, no one flyover will remove all the points of conflict. A much cheaper solution would be for CP and CN to keep their freights out of the way, as there aren't actually that many freights using the Hamilton part of the line, but it isn't foolproof, as trains can stall or break down in the least desirable places. Plus, delays to freight trains are not readily accepted by the railways.

The only substantive change in recent times, other than the trains getting longer, is CP now regularly uses pusher engines to get these longer trains up the hill to Waterdown, and that adds to the number of movements over the CP part of the territory.

- Paul

 

[Jonny5]

I can't speak to a specific issue or date, but the issue generically is simply that there are points where CN and CP freights can conflict with the GO trains' routing. On occasion, this happens.

There has been talk of building a flyover/under so that GO trains have a fool-proof route that freights can't ever block. However, no one flyover will remove all the points of conflict. A much cheaper solution would be for CP and CN to keep their freights out of the way, as there aren't actually that many freights using the Hamilton part of the line, but it isn't foolproof, as trains can stall or break down in the least desirable places. Plus, delays to freight trains are not readily accepted by the railways.

The only substantive change in recent times, other than the trains getting longer, is CP now regularly uses pusher engines to get these longer trains up the hill to Waterdown, and that adds to the number of movements over the CP part of the territory.

- Paul

Thanks. I don't often get out that way anymore, but I was at Aldershot for that major incident I mentioned a few weeks ago. I noted a freight train departed Aldershot (very slowly) heading towards Hamilton about 5 minutes before the Toronto-bound GO train from the Hunter St. station was scheduled to arrive. This appeared to be the cause of a massive cascade delay, but don't understand why. How did that one freight block trains from both Hunter Street and West Harbour from leaving Hamilton.

On a few other occasions I have monitored Lakeshore West delays on GO Tracker that indicate the same situation: trains departing West Harbour are never able to move out of sequence with the trains originating from Hunter Street unless the delay is extremely long. If a Toronto-bound train from Hunter Street is scheduled to reach Aldershot first, a train departing West Harbour will always wait for it to pass through first. What is the operational reason why that happens? Are the freights somehow blocking all those tracks across the entire junction?

 

[crs1026]

The Toronto-Aldershot-Niagara CN freights, numbers 421/422, are among the longest regularly run around here. 10,000 to 11,000 feet is not uncommon. It's 1.6 miles from the connection of the CP line at Hamilton Junction to the connection to the West Harbour station track at Stuart. That's about 8,000 feet. It's a further mile from Snake (the west end of Aldershot) to Hamilton West. So, once a 11,ooo foot long train leaves Snake, it must travel about 4.5 miles before the tail end clears at West Harbour. With construction along that stretch, there might have been a 10 mph slow order somewhere - at 10 mph it takes up to 30 minutes or more for the train to clear the zone between Aldershot and West Harbour. The CN line is single track from Hamilton Jct to West Harbour, for the moment, so the opposing GO train is trapped at West Harbour in that scenario. As are the trains from Hunter Street, even if GO were willing to let them run ahead of the West Harbour train.

I can understand why GO would want the trains to proceed in the scheduled order - this affects the 'slots' each train occupies in the schedule east of Aldershot, as well as the platform staging at Union, and any further runs the train will make. But you can see how the Hunter Street trains would pile up behind the West Harbour train.

If anything happens that causes that freight train to halt in that stretch - the whole thing melts down.

This gets back to - why would the one freight train a day that runs from Aldershot to Niagara be run through Bayview during the morning rush hour? GO has no power to stop that from happening. It may be CN's track, but something is wrong with this picture.

- Paul

 

[mdrejhon]

Dec 26
More up on site

Thanks for your great photographic update!

You should visit the Lewis GO facility sometime too, for your own photos.

Between Lewis and the Junction upgrades, I presume this suggests spur extension at West Harbour will finally extend sometime towards late 2016? This is my guess.

(Wonder if it will be early enough to permit some late-summer-season Niagara GO Trains to stop in Hamilton.)

 

[drum118]

December 29
Not much work has taken place on the Torbram Rd Grade Separation when I last saw it over 6 month ago.

The road to Etobicoke North new north lot wasn't snow plow and drivers are going to have fun getting in/out of the lot when the real snow show up

 

[vegeta_skyline]

I've never heard such a story from any of my contacts at any of the consulting terms or PNR. Unfortunately, I suspect that the reason is somewhat less nefarious, and is two-fold.

Don't know about the rest of the line, I was only referring specifically to the UP high platforms at Weston & Bloor. Don't know which contractors were involved or even if there was any actual negotiations or plans drawn up. From what I hear it seemed like it might have been more of an informal discussion. But they did go ahead and line 800m of track in the Weston tunnel with concrete sleepers on top of a concrete pad. Why it would of been so hard to line another 80m at Weston and Bloor each so as to avoid the permanent 10mph slow orders for at those locations is beyond me.

 

[Allandale25]

Why it would of been so hard to line another 80m at Weston and Bloor each so as to avoid the permanent 10mph slow orders for at those locations is beyond me.

Just to clarify, is it 10mph for UPX trains when they are entering or leaving the station? I assume that express GO trains aren't impacted?

 

[smallspy]

Don't know about the rest of the line, I was only referring specifically to the UP high platforms at Weston & Bloor. Don't know which contractors were involved or even if there was any actual negotiations or plans drawn up. From what I hear it seemed like it might have been more of an informal discussion. But they did go ahead and line 800m of track in the Weston tunnel with concrete sleepers on top of a concrete pad. Why it would of been so hard to line another 80m at Weston and Bloor each so as to avoid the permanent 10mph slow orders for at those locations is beyond me.

I suspect that at Bloor, part of the issue is still the additional dead weight of the concrete ties over the tunnels - although admittedly, I'm also quite surprised that they didn't use steel ties there as they have elsewhere in the system.

As for Weston.....no clue. Dead weight again? To be honest, I'm a little surprised that they didn't say "screw it" and just used cast-in-place at the stations instead.

To be honest though, I can't help but think that the 10mph restriction at the high-level platforms was more Metrolinx's doing than any specific request or restriction from any of the other agencies involved. It smacks of the type of "great overabundance of care" that seems to permeate the them today. It certainly doesn't seem to bother any of the other agencies in North America who run high-platform equipment. Hell, Amtrak runs their equipment at 135mph past high-level platforms every day - what do they to differently? (The probable answer is "nothing".)

Just to clarify, is it 10mph for UPX trains when they are entering or leaving the station? I assume that express GO trains aren't impacted?

Correct - express and deadheading GO trains can (and do) travel through the stations at the zone/PSO speed as permitted by the signal system.

Dan
Toronto, Ont

 

[reaperexpress]

To be honest though, I can't help but think that the 10mph restriction at the high-level platforms was more Metrolinx's doing than any specific request or restriction from any of the other agencies involved. It smacks of the type of "great overabundance of care" that seems to permeate the them today. It certainly doesn't seem to bother any of the other agencies in North America who run high-platform equipment. Hell, Amtrak runs their equipment at 135mph past high-level platforms every day - what do they to differently? (The probable answer is "nothing".)

Actually Amtrak runs 150 mph (240 km/h) through high level platforms at Mansfield and Kingston stations.

Another example of overabundance of care is the fact that UP trains need to run the bell while pulling in an out of Union and Pearson, even though both have platform screen doors. Though this probably has more to do with Transport Canada than it does with Metrolinx.

 

[smallspy]

Actually Amtrak runs 150 mph (240 km/h) through high level platforms at Mansfield and Kingston stations.

Both stations have low-level platforms, however. (Kingston is slated to get high-level platforms, but I don't know when that is scheduled to be done.) I was referring to stations with high-level platforms.

Another example of overabundance of care is the fact that UP trains need to run the bell while pulling in an out of Union and Pearson, even though both have platform screen doors. Though this probably has more to do with Transport Canada than it does with Metrolinx.

It is, in theory, a hell of a lot easier to change a Metrolinx mindset than it is to change a Transport Canada regulation.

Dan
Toronto, Ont.

 

[drum118]

Dec 30
The south end of Weston Station is pave and open to the public. Still some work to be done all around and could be done by the end of Jan.

The John St bridge is still many months away before going into service and is behind schedule. Lot more up on site