GO needs off-peak pricing

[TOareaFan]

Those agencies are able to do so because GO offers a subsidy for each passenger that takes local transit, because it's cheaper than building more parking. GO does not offer such a subsidy to the TTC, presumably to remind 416ers that they're not particularly welcome on GO.

Isn't it just an acknowledgement of two things (and I will use the Bloor station on the georgetown line as an example):

1. If you have missed the last train home (6:45 from Union) are you more likely to take a GO bus (albeit with no stops) for $3.95 or a ttc bus/subway/streetcar for $2.75......the comparative time saving and comfort that a GO train offers for the extra $1.20 is lost once you shift someone to a bus;

2. Given the less highway nature of the roads to the Bloor station...any bus that had to continue on to, say, Weston and Etobicoke north would have horrible trip times and would likely prove uncompetitive with TTC (even Etobicoke North is probably easier to access via subway connecting to a bus).

Of course those "arguments" probably don't help the guy with a monthly pass (as he now has to pay twice) but for a single ticket rider or, even, a 10-ride pass buyer, they would be better off (financially and time wise) to use the ttc if they missed their last train home.

 

[EnviroTO]

It's more like "short range trips in general are discriminated against by GO. GO's flat fare is pretty much just as expensive as that of other transit agencies, and it has fare zones/distance fare put on top of that. You'll see the same inconvenience if you want get from Unionville to Markham or Miliken, or from Dixie to Cooksville. There is absolutely no discrimination against 416ers.

GO is a service where the bulk of passengers go to Union and all Toronto stations would be shorter distances. You didn't address off-peak bus replacement service nor transfer affordability.

 

[sjc]

Therefore there is no reasonable math formula to arrive at the fares that exist today.

I believe that part of the formula is that GO is not allowed to move anyone within Toronto for less than the TTC charges.

 

[Second_in_pie]

GO is a service where the bulk of passengers go to Union and all Toronto stations would be shorter distances. You didn't address off-peak bus replacement service nor transfer affordability.

Umm are you saying Markham to Unionville and Dixie to Cooksville don't count? If the only example you're willing to accept is Union-centric, of course the only example or inconvenience you're going to get is Toronto!

I agree that GO's fare system should be more accommodating for medium-distance trips. But there is absolutely no discrimination against Toronto there. The only inconvenience is that the TTC is unwilling to provide discount transfers to Go.

 

[threnody]

I agree that GO's fare system should be more accommodating for medium-distance trips. But there is absolutely no discrimination against Toronto there. The only inconvenience is that the TTC is unwilling to provide discount transfers to Go.

Local transit agencies everywhere else in the GTA get a handout from GO for each GO passenger they carry. The TTC doesn't. Blame GO. Don't expect Toronto residents to subsidize your ride on the TTC.

 

[Dan416]

Am I the only one sick of hearing people complain about one group of residents "subsidizing" another's trip? I hate these provincial viewpoints.

 

[Paleo]

Am I the only one sick of hearing people complain about one group of residents "subsidizing" another's trip? I hate these provincial viewpoints.

So asking for the same treatment as someone else is whining now?

 

[Disparishun]

Local transit agencies everywhere else in the GTA get a handout from GO for each GO passenger they carry. The TTC doesn't. Blame GO.

It sounds like you are saying that GO was successfully able to negotiate agreements with every local transit system in the GTA except one -- the TTC.

Are you sure that that is GO's fault? The TTC's track record at cooperating with other transit agencies is not exactly exemplary.

 

[Disparishun]

Umm are you saying Markham to Unionville and Dixie to Cooksville don't count? If the only example you're willing to accept is Union-centric, of course the only example or inconvenience you're going to get is Toronto!

I agree that GO's fare system should be more accommodating for medium-distance trips. But there is absolutely no discrimination against Toronto there. The only inconvenience is that the TTC is unwilling to provide discount transfers to Go.

Exactly. GO has absolutely nothing to do with 416/905. It does have to do with the inability of transit agencies to cooperate. Hence Metrolinx.

 

[doady]

Umm are you saying Markham to Unionville and Dixie to Cooksville don't count? If the only example you're willing to accept is Union-centric, of course the only example or inconvenience you're going to get is Toronto!

I agree that GO's fare system should be more accommodating for medium-distance trips. But there is absolutely no discrimination against Toronto there. The only inconvenience is that the TTC is unwilling to provide discount transfers to Go.

The transfers in the 905 are paid for by GO, not by the local agencies.

But in the end though, it is Toronto's fault for that it's GO fares are so high. As stated already in this thread, it is against the law for any agency to provide a transit service in Toronto that competes with the TTC. That's also why MT and YRT do not pick up passengers in Toronto for inbound trips and the same rule applies to GO as well.

 

[EnviroTO]

Umm are you saying Markham to Unionville and Dixie to Cooksville don't count?

Markham, Unionville, Dixie, and Cooksville have off-peak bus replacements when the train isn't running. Weston, Bloor, Danforth, Kipling, Kennedy, Agincourt, Oriole, Old Cummer, Milliken, and Etobicoke North do not.

Most trips from Markham, Unionville, Dixie, and Cooksville are going to Union station and the rates are fairly reasonable considering distance travelled. There are not many trips from Markham to Unionville nor Dixie to Cooksville. Trips from the areas around Exhibition, Bloor, and Danforth have large numbers of people travelling to Union as well but have fares that are unreasonable considering the distance travelled.

Markham and Unionville have bus connections for only 50 cents. Dixie and Cooksville have bus connections for 60 cents. Weston, Bloor, Danforth, Kipling, Kennedy, Agincourt, Oriole, Old Cummer, Milliken, and Etobicoke North have bus connections for $2.75.

You don't see the difference?

Service should be equal inside and outside the border, the fare formula should be flat fee + (distance fee * distance) = cost, and if a subsidy is offered to one transit agency it should be offered to the TTC as well.

 

[DavidH]

It sounds like you are saying that GO was successfully able to negotiate agreements with every local transit system in the GTA except one -- the TTC.

Are you sure that that is GO's fault? The TTC's track record at cooperating with other transit agencies is not exactly exemplary.

Look at it another way. GO subsidizes co-fare pricing in other municipalities as a way to reduce driving to their stations and therefore reduce demand for onsite parking. Is this as necessary at the Toronto stations?

 

[sjc]

it is against the law for any agency to provide a transit service in Toronto that competes with the TTC.

I would like to see this law eliminated and competition allowed for transit services within Toronto. I'm not calling for the elimination of the TTC, or even elimination of subsidies, just allowing competition.

I think there is a significant potential market for rush hour commuter express services, in particular, as the TTC has never shown any real interest in providing that sort of service. As well, there are opportunities for cross-town services (such as, as an example, an airport express bus from Scarborough Town Centre).

 

[lordmandeep]

Look at Pearson it was an overcrowded Airport and they did not care about improving or were taking forever.

Then Hamilton, Buffalo and City Centre Airport started taking customers and they are now a world class Airport.

 

[TOareaFan]

Look at Pearson it was an overcrowded Airport and they did not care about improving or were taking forever.

Then Hamilton, Buffalo and City Centre Airport started taking customers and they are now a world class Airport.

Do you really think that competition from any of those 3 is what got Pearson moving?

The planned improvements from Pearson would have happened +/- a decade earlier if Jean Chritien had not cancelled the earlier plan (approved during the Mulrooney terms in office) because, basically, it had been signed by a Tory prime minister instead of a Liberal one. So, rather than get the renos/rehab going sooner, he preferred to pay out, roughly, $1B of penatlies/fees...getting nothing in return for that other than to come back with a similar plan and put his own signature on it.

Politics is what delayed the Pearson rebirth......not lack of competition.