GO and UP and Their Relevance in Toronto

[Streety McCarface]

In rush hour there is absolutely no reason why anyone in Scar should be taking the Bloor line if going to Union/downtown, so why aren't they? In order to get downtown from Scar you HAVE to pass either Kennedy or Scar GO stations. In rush hour they are frequent and even if you have to wait 10 minutes for the train, you would still get downtown MUCH faster and more comfortably than the subway. Yet Kennedy remains a very busy transfer station and the ONLY reason why anyone would take Bloor/Yonge to get downtown is because they can't afford to take GO.

Frequency increases are of course a very good thing but just because the trains are more frequent doesn't mean they are more accessible. Your boss isn't going to give you a raise because the GO train comes by more frequently now. Your landlord isn't going to give you a cut on your rent so you can take have a more comfortable commute. Your bank isn't going to reduce your mortgage so you don't have to get up as early. Hydro isn't going to reduce your rates so you can spend more time with your family.

All GO in Toronto does right now is build resentment as the average traveler sees trains going by built with their tax dollars and yet is not a service optional for them. This is akin to the province using your tax dollars building a new school in your area to relieve the severe crowding at the local one only to find out that the school will be a private with inaccessible tuition fees.

We've discussed in other threads how this is not at all the case for most people. Downtown isn't just union station, it runs north all the way to Bloor Street, and most people heading from Scarborough aren't necessarily going to Union, the financial district, or the waterfront. Those that are are probably making enough money to already take GO. Those that aren't are likely going to U of T, or any of the other locations in the city that provide opportunities for employment. These include anywhere along bloor, Eglinton and Yonge, North York Centre, U of T, York University, or locations in Old Toronto. GO should be brought to the masses in Scarborough, but it cannot replace the important role the TTC has in the area.

It's also fair to note that GO isn't any more comfortable than taking the SRT or the subway during rush hour. In fact, it's probably much less comfortable. Since you're so close to the end of the line, the GO train will likely be full and there aren't enough seats for you to sit. Since you are at the end of the line on the SRT and the subway, you are pretty much guaranteed a seat every time. Sure, the transfer at Bloor Yonge is a pain, but most people just care about having the opportunity to sit for the 20 minute shuttling between Kennedy and Bloor-Yonge.

 

[Leo_Chan]

We've discussed in other threads how this is not at all the case for most people. Downtown isn't just union station, it runs north all the way to Bloor Street, and most people heading from Scarborough aren't necessarily going to Union, the financial district, or the waterfront. Those that are are probably making enough money to already take GO. Those that aren't are likely going to U of T, or any of the other locations in the city that provide opportunities for employment. These include anywhere along bloor, Eglinton and Yonge, North York Centre, U of T, York University, or locations in Old Toronto. GO should be brought to the masses in Scarborough, but it cannot replace the important role the TTC has in the area.

It's also fair to note that GO isn't any more comfortable than taking the SRT or the subway during rush hour. In fact, it's probably much less comfortable. Since you're so close to the end of the line, the GO train will likely be full and there aren't enough seats for you to sit. Since you are at the end of the line on the SRT and the subway, you are pretty much guaranteed a seat every time. Sure, the transfer at Bloor Yonge is a pain, but most people just care about having the opportunity to sit for the 20 minute shuttling between Kennedy and Bloor-Yonge.

Would a Midtown GO line, ignoring a track ownership and cost for construction issues, somewhat solve this issue?

 

[thettctransitfanatic]

Would a Midtown GO line, ignoring a track ownership and cost for construction issues, somewhat solve this issue?

That's definitely a good question.

 

[Streety McCarface]

Would a Midtown GO line, ignoring a track ownership and cost for construction issues, somewhat solve this issue?

To an extent, of course, it really depends on the commuter. Traffic studies would certainly need to be done, but unfortunately, most governments don't have counts accurate enough to determine the relative usefulness of a line. We can make close estimations, but no guarantees, especially if we don't consider every variable.

With a midtown line, my initial thought is that if the necessary infrastructure was built at Scarborough GO stations (bus terminals with free transfers for instance, bike parking), many people would change their commutes to use the service. If they're heading to midtown, it's likely they might use that line over the crosstown. The problem with the midtown corridor is that it's in between Eglinton and Bloor, with not much in between. The crosstown and Line 2 would serve the vast majority of commuters a lot better, especially when you consider the fact that the midtown line runs through the middle of the richest neighborhoods in Toronto.

If GO ever gets the opportunity, they should definitely use the corridor, it would be amazing for cross-town services and avoiding downtown, which would definitely benefit Scarborough commuters heading to Etobicoke, or Mississauga commuters heading to Scarborough.

 

[hw621]

^not going to happen in our life time.

 

[smallspy]

All true, but I don't think that Exhibition station demands is going to change much once Ossington and Dufferin better connected.

Oh, absolutely. I just happened to be using Exhibition as it is one particularly glaring example of their thinking on the issue of the accessibility of their stations. For the most part, those same comments could be applied to almost every single station in the city of Toronto. (And, frankly, the whole system - but we're talking specifically about its relevance within Toronto here.)

If Metrolinx does complete the third tunnel at Exhibition station, and that road between Atlantic and Dufferin ever gets built, the connection to the Dufferin bus will significantly improve, become a 400-metre walk ... hmm, further than I thought actually. Perhaps Dufferin would better serve Exhibition GO from the north side (once that road is built) rather than the south side, which is often closed.

There may be other, better ways to allow riders access to Dufferin in the future. Such as, perhaps, a streetcar.

Dan

 

[nfitz]

Oh, absolutely. I just happened to be using Exhibition as it is one particularly glaring example of their thinking on the issue of the accessibility of their stations.

The irony is, with all it's issues, Exhibition has better access than many GO Station in Toronto for both pedestrians and transit!

There may be other, better ways to allow riders access to Dufferin in the future. Such as, perhaps, a streetcar.

I can see ways to loop the Dufferin bus past the GO station, but with about 400 metres from the end of the platform to Dufferin - even if they extend the Dufferin tracks south of the the Gardiner, I don't see a great connection without shifting the platforms much further west - closer to where they used to be ironically. Though once that new street is constructed, and if the proposed third tunnel is ever built, at least the walking route becomes more obvious and pleasant.

 

[thettctransitfanatic]

There may be other, better ways to allow riders access to Dufferin in the future. Such as, perhaps, a streetcar.

Dan

Well, the CNE is done if they want to build the Exhbition Place streetcar!

 

[robmausser]

I think the biggest factor in increasing GO's relevance to central Toronto is fare integration. Exhibition Station for example is right next to Liberty Village but it doesn't get used nearly as much as it should. Ridership would skyrocket if it cost the same as the TTC for the same distance. The rest of the RER upgrades are essential but fare integration will unlock its full potential.

I love when Metrolinx did that confusing sticker add-on to the Metropass for GO stations in Toronto and announced it was a failure.

yeah, no shit sherlock it was complicated and specific to people who would want to take it daily.

Complete fare integration would be a completely different beast.