sixrings
Senior Member
The same type of crayons the liberals are using for their HSR. Let’s be consistent.
|
|
|
GO 2.0 Expansion Plan
- Thread starter crs1026
- Start date
urbancog
Active Member
They were being consistent ("new crayon maps out recently for GO 2.0 and Alto"). Alto is the new name for the HxR project.
nfitz
Superstar
The REAL
New Member
It's also because it's already happening. So to talk about the present expansion wouldn't benefit them IMO
Metroscapes
Active Member
It would be stupid not to coordinate. If the corridor's going to get messed up to separate freight and HSR traffic, you might as well do the work to shoehorn in GO tracks. Some initial observations:
- The corridor is tight between USRC and Riverdale Park. Can we finally abandon Bayview Ave and use the space to give more breathing room to the tracks, trail and river?
- Major bridges / tunnels that would need expansion include Bayview (near Don Valley Brickworks), West Don (south of Eglinton), DVP, East Don (east of DVP), 401, West Highland / Stouffville, Rouge River + Little Rouge, and CN York / Donald Cousens.
- Passenger trains need to get from the south side of the corridor to the north (Leaside Spur to Havelock Sub). This implies a flyover is necessary. Where is the best place to do that?
- Are we talking about including the Richmond Hill realignment being in the scope? If so, maybe that is an influence on the flyover location.
- What's happening with CP's old Leaside Yard (between Bayview and Millwood)? Does this provide some much needed space for stuff?
- Are we looking at achieving 200-300km/h in the city? What wiggles would we be looking to eliminate, and what dogs would we let lie?
bearcat
Active Member
Member Bio
- Joined
- Jul 27, 2024
- Messages
- 651
- Reaction score
- 1,578
- Location
- Toronto (Entertainment District)
I guess sort of related, this appears to be Bonnie Crombie's (Liberal) GO expansion plan (mostly, includes some other stuff):
ontarioliberal.ca
Not that there is really much of a chance of them winning.
Bonnie Crombie’s Transit Plan for the GTHA
The official site of the Ontario Liberal Party
ontarioliberal.ca
Not that there is really much of a chance of them winning.
Last edited:
JSF-1
Active Member
Why do none of the plans include an extension of the Stouffville Line to Uxbridge? Is it a track ownership issue?
Honestly the proposed extensions to London and Brantford seem like they would be better served by increased VIA Rail service. We know a trip from London to Toronto on GO was like 4 hours long so its not really conducive for a viable commuter rail line. At those distances you're better off with faster intercity lines. A line to Brantford could hypothetically work if it terminates at Hamilton instead of trying to force it to run to Toronto. In fact it may be better to just run a line from Hamilton to London with stops in Ingersoll, Woodstock, Brantford, and Dundas. Kill two birds with one stone. People wanting to travel directly from either Brantford or London to Toronto would be better served by more frequent VIA service which makes fewer stops and can run express between major stops.I guess sort of related, this appears to be Bonnie Crombie's (Liberal) GO expansion plan:
Bonnie Crombie’s Transit Plan for the GTHA
The official site of the Ontario Liberal Party
Not that there is really much of a chance of them winning.
ARG1
Senior Member
I think it just boils down to not being a heavy hitter of a proposal. Brantford is a city of 100k, Collingwood is a town of 25k that's also a popular summer hotspot for going to the beach, and is near a major skiing resort that you can run shuttle busses to. Meanwhile Uxbridge is 21k population farming town that I wouldn't be surprised if a good chunk of GTA residents never even heard of.
smallspy
Senior Member
Not enough ridership.
That part of the corridor is owned by Metrolinx however, so when the time comes it should be a relatively straightforward thing to do.
Dan
lenaitch
Senior Member
That 21K is for the entire township which is largely rural. The 'urban area' has grown into a bit of a bedroom community since we lived there but is constrained by limitations in the York-Durham Trunk Sanitary System.
innsertnamehere
Superstar
Uxbridge is hemmed in by the greenbelt and has limited growth potential.
The town itself has a population of around 12,000. The town is not connected to the York-Durham trunk sanitary system (like Stouffville is), and relies on a local system. This system had maxed out capacity for many years, but recent upgrades have allowed development in the town to resume with increased capacity - albeit a relatively small amount of capacity.
Ultimately, the corridor to Uxbridge is winding and slow. A GO extension would be slow, would serve a limited population, and would not see significant use growth potential.
Once GO RER happens overall travel times on the Stouffville line should be a lot faster which may make it more feasible, but it would have to be an electrified extension serving a relatively small population.
Brantford is a CMA of 175,000 comparatively - albeit one further from Toronto than Uxbridge with weaker commuting patterns.
Collingwood GO would likely operate similar to Niagara GO service, with a heavy tourism tilt. There are around 60,000 people in Collingwood and Wasaga Beach, and it's a huge tourist destination with poor highway connections and higher regional traffic levels than a typical town of that size would have. The alignment for both corridors is also generally straight and supportive of competitive travel times if implemented correctly.
The town itself has a population of around 12,000. The town is not connected to the York-Durham trunk sanitary system (like Stouffville is), and relies on a local system. This system had maxed out capacity for many years, but recent upgrades have allowed development in the town to resume with increased capacity - albeit a relatively small amount of capacity.
Ultimately, the corridor to Uxbridge is winding and slow. A GO extension would be slow, would serve a limited population, and would not see significant use growth potential.
Once GO RER happens overall travel times on the Stouffville line should be a lot faster which may make it more feasible, but it would have to be an electrified extension serving a relatively small population.
Brantford is a CMA of 175,000 comparatively - albeit one further from Toronto than Uxbridge with weaker commuting patterns.
Collingwood GO would likely operate similar to Niagara GO service, with a heavy tourism tilt. There are around 60,000 people in Collingwood and Wasaga Beach, and it's a huge tourist destination with poor highway connections and higher regional traffic levels than a typical town of that size would have. The alignment for both corridors is also generally straight and supportive of competitive travel times if implemented correctly.
sixrings
Senior Member
But the tourism is not in collingwood it’s at blue mountain. Unless the train is going to make it there I am not sure how useful this is to tourism.
innsertnamehere
Superstar
One could argue the same thing about Niagara Falls and that the GO train doesn't drop people off at the Falls / Clifton Hill. It's not like Downtown Niagara Falls is exactly a large tourism driver.
People figure out the last-mile. I'm sure the ski hill would happily operate a shuttle if needed.
kvvoyage
New Member
Excuse me for my lack of knowledge but wasn't the lack of express stopping patterns one of the reasons why the London GO took so long, on top of the track speeds? So would not speeding them up by making them limited stop (as you've mentioned for the "frequent VIA services") make them feasible?
On top of that I'm also concerned by the cost - for instance, I could also take VIA from Union to Aldershot instead of GO, but the price difference makes it hard to be feasible. I think it'll be more welcomed if an express was provided with GO prices instead of VIA.
sixrings
Senior Member
Yes but I don’t need to lug skis or a snowboard onto a train and then catch a shuttle. I could in theory walk the last bit on a nice summer day to Niagara Falls.
And people clearly do not figure out the last mile all the time. It’s why we have huge parking structures at go stations. The easiest plan to figure it out was to drive the car to the station to begin with. In this case there won’t be a car.
Will some people figure it out. Sure. But the 401 and 400 series highways are packed with cars for a reason. People don’t want to deal with the last mile.