Globe: Time for a new stadium?

[nrb]

Theres plenty of empty land around the former dock areas, right at the foot of the don valley. Hell you could even build a ballpark and integrate it with the malting silos somehow. I personally am not a fan of the skydome as a baseball venue. It's almost never full and way too big for the blue jays. When there aren't enough people there it just feels completely empty and lifeless. The upper decks are pushed back from the infield. It can't compare to a purpose built ballpark.

 

[DSC]

Theres plenty of empty land around the former dock areas, right at the foot of the don valley. Hell you could even build a ballpark and integrate it with the malting silos somehow. I personally am not a fan of the skydome as a baseball venue. It's almost never full and way too big for the blue jays. When there aren't enough people there it just feels completely empty and lifeless. The upper decks are pushed back from the infield. It can't compare to a purpose built ballpark.

You might want to look at the several threads on what Waterfront Toronto has planned for this area. A stadium is not among them.

 

[LAz]

do you also suggest removing or relocating the 24 us based nhl teams so that we have an all canadian hockey league? how about the raptors?

Well, no, but I would suggest getting some US teams to go to Canada... winnipeg, quebec city and hamilton could have teams, no? I would like to see a NHL team in Vancouver and Montreal.

If they do that they might as well tear down skydome while they are at it. The place sits empty enough times during the year when there is no football or baseball, majority of concerts and events are now a days at the ACC.

Excellent idea. We could build a new one called skydome II, which would be used for only hockey or only basketball. That way we have a hockey stadium and a basketball stadium. Furthermore, it could be two hockey stadiums which would help us for an olympic bid which could be submitted in several decades, after we build a subway to the airport.

yes, lets take baseball out of one of North America's largest sports markets...
brilliant move! Where should they relocate.... Oklahoma City? New Orleans... ? You should be the next commish!

Hey, no offense, but I think that those sport fans will be spending their sport money on other canadian things rather than this american passtime... come on, we are canadians, not americans, lets be a bit different, afterall we are called america junior all the time.

Yeah also get rid of them, and while we are at it we might as well get rid of the Toronto FC they are all affiliated with American leagues.

Well I would like to see a Canadian soccer league with teams in Vancouver, Calgary, Edmonton, Winnipeg, Hamilton, Toronto, Montreal, Quebec City, Ottawa... it could happen. But, this would take a very long time and is not even remotely possible in the near future.

 

[jn_12]

sigh... anyways, moving on.

I was in the dome today for the first time this season (a 10-4 Jays team is a huge tease right now) and to be honest, when I looked around, it was hard to find something that urgently needed to be improved or renovated. One thing I never actually paid a lot of attention to was the sheer number of luxury boxes in the building. Two levels that wrap around the entire building. They set the curve on that gravy train, and I'd imagine that when the Jays make the playoffs those will be host to some lively parties.

Today's attendance was 22,000, which is average for the team. I'm not sure what can be done to improve attendance other than hype and better performance. The buzz around the team is growing though with this impressive start and if they can stay above .500 until the All-star break and are within striking distance of the wildcard, I think crowds in the 40k area will be possible (and we're not talking about when the Sox and yankees come to town). Even then, compared to other stadiums, a half full dome doesn't look nearly as depressing as all the empty seats in Oakland, Minnesota and Miami.

 

[wyliepoon]

It's almost never full and way too big for the blue jays. When there aren't enough people there it just feels completely empty and lifeless. The upper decks are pushed back from the infield. It can't compare to a purpose built ballpark.

I don't really buy the hype surrounding purpose-built "retro" ballparks, especially the "build it and they will come" theory surrounding them. And sometimes when they have small crowds they feel just as empty and lifeless as SkyDome. Anybody catching the last part of Saturday's game where the Cleveland Indians killed the Yankees 22-4 at New Yankee Stadium would understand - you could hear a pin drop at Yankee Stadium towards the last part of the game. No amount of architecture would be able to rally those fans.

 

[Felino]

Baseball is on a serious decline in Canada and football (soccer) is on the way up. Fortunately the TFC does not need taxpayer dollars to pay for upgrades to it's stadium. We already have the ACC for big events, and the aging Rogers Centre can stay as is.

 

[TOareaFan]

For those suggesting expanding Rogers Centre by eliminating the hotel......you might want to factor in the cost of purchasing the hotel before you figure out the costs of demolishing it and rebuilding seating.

As I recall, the hotel is a separate legal title and is not owned by Rogers......I only have a couple of decades' experience in commercial real estate but I have found that people hate it when you arbitrarily demolish their property.

 

[TOareaFan]

Baseball is on a serious decline in Canada and football (soccer) is on the way up. Fortunately the TFC does not need taxpayer dollars to pay for upgrades to it's stadium.

I am a TFC STH since day one and a lifelong football supporter......you might, though, wanna stear clear of the taxpayer argument when your sport is occupying a stadium that was built on free taxpayer owned land and with the taxpayer paying 73% of the construction cost

 

[isaidso]

Thank god because you would be talking about dismantling a League that has existed for many generations, 92 years to be exact.

Well Roger Communications and a fair proportion of the southern Ontario population seem intent on doing something similar to the only sports league Canada has left, the CFL. If we're going to throw away the oldest professional football team in North America, the Argonauts, what's stopping us from dismantling the NHL too? A team is only as good as the fans it has. Sh*tty fans = Sh*tty team

With increased immigration comes a continued growth of soccer and cricket. We'll probably be doing the same thing to the Leafs in about 30 years, as we're doing to the Argonauts today. It won't matter if hockey is our game. Football was/is our game too. Gridiron traces its roots to central Canada, but that doesn't seem to matter to people these days.

I can just hear Torontonians in 2039 now: "The NHL is lame! We're all about soccer and cricket. Let the NHL die already!" We're already hearing locals call soccer, by the name 'football'. Check the above posts for proof. Football has always meant gridiron in this country, but they don't care. They don't give a rat's ass about protecting Canadian heritage, cultural sensitivity, or adopting traditional Canadian passions.

In 1979, people would have thought anyone mad to suggest watching NFL, or that within a generation the Argonauts wouldn't be a big deal in Toronto. Look what happened! I can feel the same thing happening to hockey. Another generation or two, and it will be hockey's turn to get the big boot in this city.

Sad, but that's how Toronto is.

 

[jn_12]

Great exaggerations.

First of all, the Argos are doing just fine. They have a strong base, and in 2007 they had their highest average attendance figures since 1992 (30,000 people/game). I don't know what last year's figures were, but they can't be far off. They also have owners that are very committed to the community and the team. So, you can forget this "no one cares about the Argos" business. Also, there's absolutely nothing to suggest that an NFL team in Toronto would cause people to "throw away" the Argos. The two can exist, and in fact some smart partnerships between the two could result in a stronger Argos presence. For example, if you buy season tickets to the NFL team you'd need to buy season tickets for the argos, or something along those lines. Rogers and Tanenbaum probably don't want to be considered the group that ended the CFL, so they're not about to let that happen.

Second, hockey is going to die in Toronto? Seriously, maybe one of the stupidest comments I've ever read here. You have a team in an ever-expanding market where divorce settlements revolve around who gets to keep the season tickets. Oh and there's a 20 year waiting list for seasons tickets (so that takes you to at least 2029). You make it sound like because people like soccer and cricket, that they can't like the Leafs or hockey, and that's just not true.

In that nonsense, I'm going to bring it back to one point that you inadvertently made. The Argos probably need to move to a stadium that is CFL suitable. Obviously a move to BMO won't and shouldn't happen, but do they have other options that haven't already been addressed (such as Varsity and York U...)?

 

[Riverdale Rink Rat]

Argos are just fine -- and just fine in the 'Dome

In that nonsense, I'm going to bring it back to one point that you inadvertently made. The Argos probably need to move to a stadium that is CFL suitable. Obviously a move to BMO won't and shouldn't happen, but do they have other options that haven't already been addressed (such as Varsity and York U...)?

I'm not an Argos nor football fan, but I was talked into going to the 'Dome for the combined Metro Bowl/Argos game awhile back by a friend who played football for Northern (they were in it that year.) He took his daughter to the Northern game and then I took her seat for the Argo nightcap.

The game was exciting, Rogers has invested in the 'Dome to the point where it's a pleasant facility, all in all a great time. They cover the top seats, so it feels full at 30k... no need to find another facility, IMO.

Another thing that makes CFL football more fun than NFL... the fact that it's NOT the corporate machine. That was the game where the guy kicked his million-dollar field goal for... Wendy's(?). He missed the chipshots, getting closer and closer (wide right, wide right but closer, hit the right upright), then put the last one through. So, when it became obvious he had the leg to get it there for the last one, the Argos came out to watch... and MOBBED the guy when he hit it! No WAY the Bills do that.

 

[Asterix]

They have a strong base, and in 2007 they had their highest average attendance figures since 1992 (30,000 people/game).

<snip>

The Argos probably need to move to a stadium that is CFL suitable. Obviously a move to BMO won't and shouldn't happen, but do they have other options that haven't already been addressed (such as Varsity and York U...)?

I'm not quite following this logic. You say the Argos are getting 30,000 out for the games, but then suggest they look at options such as Varsity with a permanent seating capacity of about 5,000? (And no space to add any more.)

What kind of capacity does/would York have? Any reason they would construct a 30,000+ stadium without a specific demand for one?

 

[Riverdale Rink Rat]

Varsity went UT only

I'm not quite following this logic. You say the Argos are getting 30,000 out for the games, but then suggest they look at options such as Varsity with a permanent seating capacity of about 5,000? (And no space to add any more.)

What kind of capacity does/would York have? Any reason they would construct a 30,000+ stadium without a specific demand for one?

You've missed a couple of chapters in the Argo saga. The owners proposed a 20-25k revamp of the crumbling Varsity, but UT decided to go student-only at 5k. A proposed York U stadium was, IMO, nothing more than a red herring to try and get the Varsity deal and/or a better deal at SkyDome back before it was Rogers Centre. Neither idea is still doable.

 

[MisterF]

First of all, the Argos are doing just fine. They have a strong base, and in 2007 they had their highest average attendance figures since 1992 (30,000 people/game). I don't know what last year's figures were, but they can't be far off.

Last year their average attendance was 29,189. Hamilton's average was 20,784.

http://www.geocities.com/cfl_historical/CFL-Attendance.htm

 

[jn_12]

^ Thanks for that! Still pretty good, I'd say!

And thanks Riverdale for saving me the trouble of having to explain things to Asterix.