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Globe: Moving out, moving up?

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RELOCATING
Moving out, moving up?
Three couples weigh the costs and benefits of leaving the big city

KATHY FLAXMAN

Special to The Globe and Mail

Toronto couples who want to move to bigger, better homes are usually familiar with the debate: Move out of the city and get more house for your money; stay, and enjoy the urban perks and avoid tedious commutes to work. The argument has raged since land east of the Bloor Viaduct was considered the burbs, but today's soaring home prices are keeping buyers, especially first-time ones, out of the city neighbourhoods they prefer and preventing them from moving up.

The conundrum has vexed Brad and Meredyth Hilton, but each of them looks at it from a different vantage point. Mr. Hilton dreams of a grand and spacious new home with all the latest gadgets and goodies, on an enormous lot with a multicar garage, perhaps somewhere like Stouffville. Ms. Hilton, on the other hand, is a city person who likes to nip out to the corner deli, or take her two boys to the park -- grabbing a quick latte on the way -- any time the mood hits.

When the couple began to consider selling their mid-town Toronto home, his dream collided with her notion of an ideal lifestyle. "Our place is great, but we could use something bigger. Storage is an issue," Ms. Hilton acknowledges. "However, I told Brad I would get a divorce rather than move out of the city."

"I thought I was going to be living in a new house with all the toys; a kind of 'smart' house where the electronics could be controlled by one switch in the bedroom," Mr. Hilton sighs. "But all the driving is definitely a factor."

Mr. Hilton should talk to Tom Masters. He and his wife Lori Bowes are proud owners of a 2,200-square-foot yellow brick home in Kitchener. Built in 1910, it sits on a corner lot measuring 80 by 150 feet, and is filled with wonderful original woodwork.

But on a recent snowy day, Mr. Masters, a 42-year-old senior production artist with a company in west-end Toronto, spent three hours getting to work.

"We were renting, but when we had twins -- a boy and a girl -- 16 months ago, we decided it was time to look at buying," says Mr. Masters. "But areas [in Toronto] we liked were too expensive. Since Lori's mother lives in Kitchener, we thought we'd consider moving there.

"On a good day, the commute can take an hour and 10 minutes. The worst time I've spent commuting is four hours going home one Friday in bad weather," he says.

For Ms. Bowes, 41, a day spent corralling twins Rachel and Jack can be a long and lonely one without her friends and former colleagues in Toronto. "I pictured playing with my kids and visiting my mom," she says. "I did the head in the sand thing before we moved. The biggest surprise for me is how incredibly isolated I feel. I have to remember how fortunate we are to have this house."

Yes, there are plusses. Prior to moving the couple was paying close to $1,400 in rent. Their monthly mortgage payment now is a tidy $500.

"Our home cost $204,000," Mr. Masters says. "It's two storeys, with three bedrooms, two bathrooms and a partly finished basement.

We can walk to the farmers market and to downtown Kitchener. Before we met, Lori bought a Mercedes C230 two-door coupe, which I drive to work. I drive a car that's fun, even if the commute is harder than I had thought."

But Paul Downs, a division manager for PJ's Pet Centres who drives regularly from his Newmarket home to various PJ's outlets, laughs off the travelling. Yes, the home he and his family moved into this winter is bigger than the one they had lived in for years in the east end of Toronto. But their move was prompted by something else -- neighbourhood violence (a factor that makes trying to save money by buying in a B-list neighbourhood even less appealing).

"I'll tell you a story that will make things clear," says Mr. Downs, 45. "We have a cottage in Parry Sound and when we got back one Sunday night, we were wakened by gunfire at 3 a.m. In the following weeks, there were three more instances of gunfire. That same year, a young man was stabbed to death not far from my daughter's school. Ten blocks from our house, a shopping cart was found filled with body parts. That was the last straw."

Mr. Downs now talks of being able to reach the "the country in any direction" by driving two or three minutes from the family's new quarters. "We all like to be outdoors. We get a lot of snow and my daughters, Carly and Liza (14 and 12, respectively), spend time tobogganing with their friends. We also enjoy the slower pace of life. We don't miss the hyperactivity of Toronto."

On the other hand, Lydia Hardwicke, vice-president, media director at Foote Cone & Belding Toronto, who lives in Brampton with her husband and two daughters, misses the Toronto amenities. "We live in a subdivision where we cannot walk to the store," she says. "Before, we lived at St. Clair and Christie and would pop out to the stores or walk to Forest Hill Village on a Saturday."

Her husband, Geoff Hardwicke, adds: "We didn't want to be part of urban sprawl and global warming. But when we began to look at houses three years ago, we found out we could not move up; we could not for example have a fully detached house in a good neighbourhood at a price we could afford. I was working in Guelph at the time, and we made the move to Brampton and we did it with our eyes open."

The couple's subdivision home, which they share with daughters Alexandra, 5,and Savanah, 3, is 2,700 square feet, with four bedrooms and a two-car garage. "We were able to purchase a bigger home here, for the same amount as we were paying before," explains Ms. Hardwicke, 39. "The mortgage is the same, but everything else does cost more. Gas costs me about $200 a month for my commute."

The Hardwickes cope with two hectic jobs and one commute (Mr. Hardwicke now works in Brampton as brand director for Hudson's Bay Co.) by being super-organized. Ms. Hardwicke is able to work a four-day week and choose her own hours. It works. The couple says they'll not likely move back to Toronto, though they do sometimes pine for the city.

"We really miss the ability to walk outside, and be somewhere, like a Second Cup," says Mr. Hardwicke, 37. "In the first year, we were sort of shocked to find ourselves as part of the suburban plight. But the only way we would be likely to move back to Toronto is perhaps to a condominium when the girls are grown and leave home."

Meredyth and Brad Hilton are staying put for now, and trying to formulate a plan to help them deal with things such as the lack of storage space. "An accountant told me that Toronto is considered undervalued in comparison to other cities around the world, like London, England, or New York," Ms. Hilton says. "But that doesn't do anything for us in terms of selling our present home and buying a bigger one here. To have the home we would like, we would have to double our mortgage. Who can afford that?"
 
"I thought I was going to be living in a new house with all the toys; a kind of 'smart' house where the electronics could be controlled by one switch in the bedroom," Mr. Hilton sighs.

There is nothing stopping you from installing electronics in your house. The cost of replacing old electrical switches with automated home equivalents is quite affordable. You don't need to buy a new car to get the newest car stereo.
 
It's one of those stories where there's no point. People made decisions to live in different places. So what?
 
Rewire

I rewired 80% of my 1959 Triplex when we did the major renos.
 
Re: Rewire

When my wife and I were living in our Cabbagetown house we kept seeing our neighbours with children moving to the 'burbs. I asked one of the dads why, and he said while Cabbagetown is fine for younger kids, he didn't want his now independence-seeking 10 year old son mixing with the locals in Regent Park, etc.

I thought that was a rubbish reason. I'll be moving back to our Cabbagetown house this summer with our 4 year old girls, and look forward to it. I was raised in Mississauga (Derry & Winston Churchill) from the time we emigranted from England until we moved to the Toronto Beach(es) in early 1988. I can tell you, the positive change from Mississauga to the City was amazing. There is no way I'll be raising my kids in the 'burbs.

Got laid off (would have preferred just laid :) ) earlier this week, so our plans to move back to Toronto are accelerating. My first days of unemployment haven't been too bad. Bought myself an econo set of saddle bags for the Triumph yesterday, and saw a movie yesterday with my BSA-riding mate. Today I'm off to play backgammon with another friend. With luck we'll have some excellent weather this weekend, which'll give me two full days or more on the road exploring. I spent five hours on the bike yesterday, and will spend much of today cleaning off road salt and grime.
 
Re: Rewire

I asked one of the dads why, and he said while Cabbagetown is fine for younger kids, he didn't want his now independence-seeking 10 year old son mixing with the locals in Regent Park, etc.

That's a class issue, above all else.

AoD
 
Re: Rewire

The Star on the same topic...

Link to article

Searching for a lifestyle



What T.O.'s got
What Milton's got
Where to buy?
In Toronto: Smaller houses, sure, but the trees are bigger
In Milton, kids can grow up with a big backyard of their own
Mar 24, 2007 04:30 AM
Theresa Boyle
Whether you buy downtown or in the suburbs is a bigger decision than just determining what type of house you want - it ultimately changes everything about how you live.

Downtown

It was seven times lucky for Jovanka Wong and Teig O'Malley. The couple finally purchased a house this month – after losing six bidding wars.

"We were very, very lucky," says Wong, an elementary school teacher, explaining they nabbed the house hours after it came on the market.

They got the detached two-storey in the Upper Beach for $397,000.

The recent census shows this area experiencing a slight population decline. It's a neighbourhood in transition. Children have grown up and moved on and their parents are selling the old family house.

Now young families and couples are moving in. Wong and O'Malley have been renting until now, but were intent on staying in Toronto.

"We were fortunate we had some money to put down on a home. You almost have to go to the suburbs to get a starter home," O'Malley says.

Wong, 33, teaches at a school in the downtown core and O'Malley, 37, is a yoga instructor, working at various yoga studios around the city.

They have family and friends here and feel very connected to the city.

"I like everything it has to offer socially," Wong says.

Toronto's entertainment scene is another big draw for the couple. "I like going to dance (performances). It's a big part of my life," Wong says.

A big environmentalist, she gave up driving a couple of years ago, on principle. So having public transit nearby was important. Woodbine subway station is a short walk away from their new home, as are the streetcars on Gerrard St.

"I take transit to work every day. I take transit everywhere," says Wong, who takes the subway to dance class five days a week.

A big walker, she likes the fact that the local greengrocer is a short stroll away. Buying local is important to the couple.

"It's better than driving to Costco and Loblaws," she remarks.

Also within walking distance are the pubs on the Danforth and the restaurants in Little India.

The beach is a 25-minute walk away and there's a park three blocks away. But it was the century-old trees – linden, maple and oak – in the established neighbourhood that sold the couple on their two-storey house on Kingsmount Park Rd.

"What we really like the most are the trees. We're major tree-huggers," Wong says.

She says she couldn't bear to move to a new subdivision with no mature trees.

"Give me all the granite countertops in the world, I wouldn't go," she says.

Wong and O'Malley's new home is about 50 years old and though the décor is dated, it's in solid shape.

It's about 1,400 square feet and sits on a lot that measures 20 by 90 feet. It has three bedrooms and a finished basement apartment. There is no garage, but there is a parking spot. The house has two fireplaces and stainless steel appliances.

"It's a crazy market. Some people bid $100,000 over the asking price. It just wasn't worth it," O'Malley says.

"It was just terrible to lose six bids. I guess the price range we were looking in was common," says Wong.

The couple looked for almost a year and toured "hundreds" of homes with their very patient real estate agent, Linda Ing-Gilbert.

"There's so much garbage out there," Wong observes. "A lot of the homes we saw were basically too renovated, with no love, no feeling. ... Others were not taken care of. They smelled like pets, food."

Like many city houses, theirs is situated very close to their neighbours on both sides – less than a metre separates their house from their neighbour's on the south.

But that's not an issue for this couple. "I like feeling close to my neighbours. I like the community, family feeling that you don't always get in the suburbs," Wong says.

The couple is excited about moving into their home. They take possession May 18.

Because of its age, the house needs some work: a renovated kitchen and bathroom, new windows and some electrical updates. But the two environmentalists feel better about moving into an older home.

"We're both concerned about our world. It's the ultimate in reusing. That's better than building from scratch," Wong says.

She says a couple of the homes they placed bids on would have required more work.

In hindsight she's pleased they lost the bidding wars.

"We would have had to compromise somehow on all of them. Either the neighbourhood wasn't right, or the price was too high or there was too much work to do," she says.

But their home on Kingsmount fits the bill perfectly.

"It worked out really well," Wong says.

"When we walked in the door, I had a feeling that this was it. It had a really good feeling."
Suburbs

When Andrew Salmons purchased his pre-construction condominium on Bloor St. W. four years ago, he was a single guy with no dependants.

When the condo was finally built and he moved in three years later, he was married with a child.

Suddenly, his 645-square-foot, one-bedroom unit was hardly big enough.

Next month, the Salmons family will move to Milton, the fastest growing community in Canada. Between 2001 and 2006, the population surged by 71 per cent, according to the latest census.

"It was because of family," Andrew says, explaining the main impetus behind the move.

He's trading up to a 2,000-square-foot, four-year-old detached house on 4th Line in Milton, which he purchased for $335,000.

It's been a challenge living in such tight condominium quarters, he says.

He and wife Stephanie's bedroom measures only 10 feet by 10 feet. There's hardly enough room to walk around their queen-size bed.

"We really feel crammed in," Andrew says.

Their 4-foot-by-6-foot den has been turned into a makeshift bedroom for son Joshua, 2, but it can barely accommodate a small bed and dresser.

"I don't like living in a tin can," says Stephanie.

The family has been forced to rent a storage locker where they keep Christmas decorations and extra toys for Joshua.

In contrast, their new house has three bedrooms plus a den. The kitchen is so big that half of the condo could fit into it, Andrew observes.

The house sits on a lot 36 feet wide and 80 feet deep. And best of all, it has a backyard where Joshua can play. Andrew says he already envisions a swing set, garden and barbecue.

The couple, in their 20s, say Milton is just a better place to raise Joshua.

"He needs the space to release his energy. He can't be crammed up in 645 square feet," Andrew argues.

Their new home is on a quiet street in a neighbourhood that's still being developed. In fact, there's an empty, muddy lot directly across from their house, awaiting new houses.

There are lots of young families with children in the area. Children walk home after being dropped off at a nearby street corner by a school bus.

Andrew is convinced that Joshua will be safer here.

"I don't want him going to a school in an area where there is crime or violence. It wouldn't be safe for a boy to walk by himself to school in Toronto," he says.

Asked what he'll miss about Toronto, Andrew quips: "The high rate of cash flow from my pocket."

Indeed, he has learned that his car insurance will be half as much in Milton.

And the property taxes for both homes are the same – $2,600 – even though the Toronto condo is valued at $130,000 less than the house.

With the price of single-family homes exorbitantly high in Toronto, the Salmons ruled out that option.

"I didn't even consider looking for a house in Toronto. You couldn't find a brand new house in Toronto for that price," he says.

The affordability of the home allows the family to pay the bills on one income while Stephanie continues her college education. She's in the process of completing a certificate in arts and sciences at Humber College.

The Salmons made a tidy profit on the sale of the condo, located on Bloor, between Dundas West and Lansdowne Ave. It was purchased for $161,900 and sold four years later for $205,000.

As happy as he is with his decision to move, Andrew says there's lots he'll miss about living in the big city.

"The city doesn't sleep. There are so many different things to do. You can walk to so many different places," he says.

"I like to be able to walk downtown and go to restaurants and movies. It's all so quick and easy," he adds.

In fact, the couple will have to get a second vehicle because it's not as easy to get around Milton.

Andrew, who works in application support and project management for a marketing company, says it was his co-workers at Maritz Loyalty Marketing in Meadowvale who convinced him to buy in Milton.

A number of them already live there and they raved about what a great community it is: affordable, lots of green space and a mere 16-minute drive to work.

"The fact it's so close to work was a big benefit," Andrew says.

With just over a month to go until they take possession of the house, Andrew says there's no looking back. He's just counting down the days until he moves in.

"From my perspective," he says, "I've hit the jackpot."
 
Re: Rewire

"I don't want him going to a school in an area where there is crime or violence. It wouldn't be safe for a boy to walk by himself to school in Toronto," he says.

Perhaps this is my suburban ignorance, but how is it better for him to live so far from school that he needs to get bussed or driven to school everyday? Really, how many homes in Milton (or anywhere in the burbs) are within a child's walking distance to school?
 
Re: Rewire

Perhaps this is my suburban ignorance, but how is it better for him to live so far from school that he needs to get bussed or driven to school everyday? Really, how many homes in Milton (or anywhere in the burbs) are within a child's walking distance to school?
90%+ of Mississauga. Only areas are usually the new subdivisions where the school is being built, and areas where the catchment area is too small small (a small area of southern Lorne Park that is jammed between the Lake and the railway tracks). Also, for some special needs programs students are bused to schools that have better resources, though new funding is generally helping make it easier for every school to handle special needs students.
 
Typical suburban/subdivision houses are invariably within a child's walk from a school due to the neighbourhood unit principle to which most were built and due to the fact that school boards in the 60s through the 80s were massively overbuilding, favouring many small schools rather than fewer large schools.

The guy thinks his kid will be murdered walking to school but sees nothing wrong with living in an area that will be an open construction site till the kid's 10 or 12.
 
In theory, they could walk to school. In practice, they all too often don't, because it's been ingrained that if the parents (or whomever) don't drive them to school, it's, I dunno, abuse or something. Even if the walk's only 15 minutes.

Hey, in my old up-mid-class suburban zone, walking to school is "weird" in a way it never was when I was a kid...
 

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