Globe: Gustav revives question: New Orleans worth it?

[Dichotomy]

Maybe to an extent... but the area you live in does have a huge impact on your insurance rates. For example, years ago when I was driving and I moved from the 905 to downtown, my insurance rates on my car nearly doubled overnight simply because driving downtown is statistically more dangerous. The same applies to home insurance: rates are far higher for homes that are deemed likely to flood by virtue of being below sea level, near a levy, on a flood plain, in a hurricane-prone area, etc.

Beach Homes may be owned by people who can afford to rebuild, or afford drastically higher insurance rates. New Orleans doesn't really fit that demographic.

When my mother's condo was hit by a hurricane in '96 the building had to be refaced, all her furniture was ruined (she was on the 7th floor!), the swimming pool had been swept into the ocean, the dunes were gone, windows blown in, etc. Her remarks were interesting though: 'everyone's insurance in Florida goes up, but at least we got new furniture, rugs and curtains out of the deal.'
Even events like the WTC become our responsiblity. Insurance companies are multi-national now and everyone chips into share the liability.

 

[lordmandeep]

imo if you stay in the path of a cat 3 hurricane or higher, your an idiot.

I went through Hurricane Jeanne went it hit Florida as a Cat 3. We went after Frances as we thought that Florida can't possibly be hit. We where in that area where it hit and we decided to stay and ride it out in a big hotel.

It is not remembered much as it just took all the damage Charley and Frances Caused and whipped it around. So the damages where low however It was scary as hell.

Never again...

 

[Hydrogen]

Am I the only person who was surprised that the levees haven't all been repaired by now?
They've had THREE YEARS. It's not like they aren't expecting a hurricane again. This is the U.S., not Pakistan.

Warnings concerning the inability of the levees to withstand even a moderate hurricane go back to the 1970's. Three years and a lousy rate of repair fits into the general pattern of things.

 

[Brandon716]

The cost of rebuilding a responsible levee system is minimal considering what New Orleans contributes to the United States both economically and culturally.

The Port of New Orleans and the Gulf oil platforms that deliver oil to the city to be refined is too important to ignore.

But that's not to say the culture the city gives to America. I don't like the thought of reading about Mademoiselle Reisz being rude to her fellow characters in the Awakening with the thought of it being a former American city.

Chopin might roll over in her grave.

Besides, speaking of Dennis Hastert's comments, what kind of politician openly says a city of 1.3 million should be bulldozed and left to the history books?

 

[Brandon716]

Much of the city is actually above sea level, particularly the historic parts of the city from the French Quarter, downtown, and notably the Garden District/uptown areas.

These areas in the 1700's and 1800's were the only parts of the city above sea level, so that's where the original city was built before the levee system come around as New Orleans needed room to expand.

http://gnocdc.s3.amazonaws.com/maps/elevation.html

A matter of fact, the kind of flooding you saw in downtown around the Superdome was considered relatively normal for a massive hurricane like Katrina, and that kind of flooding could have occurred in any coastal city anywhere on the east coast.

Another New Orleans factoid: most of the metropolitan area wasn't flooded by Katrina. Most of Jefferson parish and the west bank was untouched. It was the city proper, lower 9th ward particularly, and the lower populated St Bernard parish that took the brunt of the flooding.

Over 60% of the metropolitan area was allowed to move back in, from Marerro to Metarie, without any major flood damage back in 2005. To say this metro area isn't salvageable is beyond insane.

 

[lordmandeep]

A matter of fact, the kind of flooding you saw in downtown around the Superdome was considered relatively normal for a massive hurricane like Katrina, and that kind of flooding could have occurred in any coastal city anywhere on the east coast.

Another New Orleans factoid: most of the metropolitan area wasn't flooded by Katrina. Most of Jefferson parish and the west bank was untouched. It was the city proper, lower 9th ward particularly, and the lower populated St Bernard parish that took the brunt of the flooding.

thats only because NO get the easy side of the storm.

If Katrina went to the west of NO it wuld have got 30 foot storm surges instead 15-20 feet.

There would have been more failures and more water and the flooding would hit places that were left untouched.


May point being everything outside of the neighborhoods you mentioned should be abandoned.

 

[Brandon716]

Its true that Katrina could have been even worse if it were a few miles to the west during landfall, and the storm surge would have been even higher.

But at the same time, the old city was built in a crescent around the Mississippi River banks. If you look at the map, the French Quarter (the original city) was built just above the "e" where it says superdome on the map:

The old city was built in that c-shaped area around the river below the superdome label on land that is indeed above sea level.

This area was largely (and thankfully) flooded with minimal waters, and in fact not bad for a Category 4 hurricane.

But the flood waters that poured into New Orleans came from the canals connected to Lake Ponchartrain, not directly from the ocean.

That's how it works. And the worst real estate in New Orleans is real estate in neighborhoods that hug close to Lake Ponchartrain or directly upon the canals.

Honestly, the big problem the Corps of Engineers didn't fix before Katrina - and now has been solved (or is being solved) - is there used to be minimal gates to keep the water of Lake Ponchartrain from intruding onto the canals.

Its my understanding the new system has gates that will close off any water from the Lake from coming inland to the canals inside the city itself.

 

[Brandon716]

http://blog.nola.com/times-picayune/2007/04/study_bust_myth_that_new_orlea.html

Study bust myth that New Orleans is sunken city
Posted by The Times-Picayune April 20, 2007 9:50PM
By Leslie Williams
Staff writer

A yearlong topographic and demographic study of New Orleans arrives this month like the latest installment of the television series "MythBusters" -- and may forever change the notion of the Big Easy as a below-sea-level city.

"Contrary to popular perceptions, half of New Orleans is at or above sea level," according to the study by Tulane and Xavier universities' Center for Bioenvironmental Research.

Yep, half.

 

[Hydrogen]

Wasn't Tulane flooded during Katrina?

 

[scarberiankhatru]

There was flooding due to rain and wind damage, but Tulane was not underwater like the Lower Ninth Ward due to levee breaches.

 

[Brandon716]

The entire city had some water. Like I said, for a Category 5 hurricane that dropped to 4 when it landed, it brought in 30ft of storm surge (which is Category 5 level).

New Orleans is 20 miles inland from the coast where the storm actually hit, the eye was literally only 20 miles east of downtown. The eye wall was only 15 miles or so east of the city, so it for all intents and purposes was a direct hit.

1ft of water in the above sea level areas of town are not bad, so New Orleans is not as dangerous of a city to live in as many people believe. Miami is equally as dangerous, and there's far more expensive real estate down in Miami.

The biggest problems in New Orleans are the MRGO canal to the Gulf and Lake Ponchartrain.

The 30ft storm surge in the ocean caused Lake Ponchartrain to surge to 8.5 ft above sea level, its normal lake level is 1ft above sea level.

The 17th ST Canal broke because the peat soil below the levy gave way, because the Corp of Engineers screwed up and only dug pilings 10ft deep when their own construction said they should do it 17ft.

New Orleans and Katrina was first and foremost an engineering problem. The Industrial Canal at Lower 9th Ward was innundated with water, and it topped the levies. The reason why is because of the man-made MRGO and canal system, because water shot up the MRGO to the industrial canal like a shot being pumped into someone's vein.

The Corp of Engineers just proposed to Congress to get funding to close the MRGO and dam up Lake Ponchartrain so that there is no Industrial Canal access to the Gulf or to Lake so that Katrina will never happen again.

I recommend reading the Wikipedia entries on this topic, there is much to read about.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2005_levee_failures_in_Greater_New_Orleans

For the city of New Orleans to be located 15 miles from the eye wall of one of America's most powerful Hurricanes on record, and for the city to have so much land below sea level, I think the fact that downtown and the areas of the city above sea level to only have a foot or two of water proves the city isn't that bad off and can be "salvaged".

Katrina had 30ft of storm surge that was pushed up and much of which pushed into Lake Ponchartrain, it was the deadliest scenario.

 

[shumoon]

"Contrary to popular perceptions, half of New Orleans is at or above sea level," according to the study by Tulane and Xavier universities' Center for Bioenvironmental Research.

Yep, half.

Then I guess the answer to the question of this thread would be that half of New Orleans is worth rebuilding. To me, the half that is below sea level seems doomed. To protect the lives and assets of a city of hundreds of thousands, those levees would have to be the most indestructible things ever created. Such a project would have to be monumental in engineering and cost.

 

[CityPlaceN1]

While I'm in favour of saving the town there are some serious issues to consider. The barrier islands and wetlands protecting the city are rapidly disappearing. Add to that the rise in sea levels and you have a recipe for disaster. If this continues its only a matter of time that New Orleans becomes a walled island.

How does one protect a walled island city from a category 5 direct hit?