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General railway discussions

dowlingm said:
I have a feeling the MPI brand is dead, so any new locos reverting to GE, such as their P47AC proposal

Meanwhile electrek reports on a UK trial of a Hitachi battery intercity trainset. Mind you, the distances between cities in England are not exactly Canadian distances.
electrek.co

'UK-first' intercity battery trial train outperforms diesel

A "UK-first" intercity battery trial train proved that single battery technology can outperform diesel engines cost-effectively.
electrek.co electrek.co
Click to expand...
Is Alstom a potential bidder?
 
dowlingm said:
Meanwhile electrek reports on a UK trial of a Hitachi battery intercity trainset. Mind you, the distances between cities in England are not exactly Canadian distances.
electrek.co

'UK-first' intercity battery trial train outperforms diesel

A "UK-first" intercity battery trial train proved that single battery technology can outperform diesel engines cost-effectively.
electrek.co electrek.co
Click to expand...
Well, for one it's not a battery trainset.

It's a DEMU that has had one of its 3 diesel motors removed and replaced with a large battery bank - like a hybrid. At the end of the day, it's still an electro-diesel.

Dan
 
The train set referred to in Hitachi Rail's press release, would be a modified TransPennine Express Nova 1, which is a BR Class 802/2. The standard 802/2 is primarily an EMU (25kV AC) with 3x700kW V12 turbo-diesel engines to allow it to operate on lines that aren't electrified. For the trail, one of the diesel engines has been replaced with a battery pack with an identical form factor, power output (700kW) and weight.

Their claims for the battery pack include:
  • Able to power the train set on the single battery pack for a distance of 70km
  • Able to accelerate the train set to 120km/h (75mph) from a station stop, with additional power needed from the diesel engines to reach max speed of 200km/h (125mph)
Stated plan is to create an electric-battery train set with a battery-powered range of 100 - 150 km. For reference, the Milton Line from the intersection with Metrolinx's Weston Sub to Milton GO Station is ~43km, and CN-owned Halton Sub between Bramalea GO Stn and Silver Junction west of Georgetown Station on the Kitchener Line section is ~22km.
 
urbancog said:
The train set referred to in Hitachi Rail's press release, would be a modified TransPennine Express Nova 1, which is a BR Class 802/2. The standard 802/2 is primarily an EMU (25kV AC) with 3x700kW V12 turbo-diesel engines to allow it to operate on lines that aren't electrified. For the trail, one of the diesel engines has been replaced with a battery pack with an identical form factor, power output (700kW) and weight.

Their claims for the battery pack include:
  • Able to power the train set on the single battery pack for a distance of 70km
  • Able to accelerate the train set to 120km/h (75mph) from a station stop, with additional power needed from the diesel engines to reach max speed of 200km/h (125mph)
Stated plan is to create an electric-battery train set with a battery-powered range of 100 - 150 km. For reference, the Milton Line from the intersection with Metrolinx's Weston Sub to Milton GO Station is ~43km, and CN-owned Halton Sub between Bramalea GO Stn and Silver Junction west of Georgetown Station on the Kitchener Line section is ~22km.
Click to expand...
This is a good first step in proving whether it could have wide reaching usefulness.
 
As a note, that battery power locomotive is only good for single level coaches and short trains compare to the DD cars and trains from 8-12 cars long that GO use. Would be great for UPX, but that is all at this time.

All trains being tested for new technology are short and single level unless they are EMU's which can handle DD long trains.
 
urbancog said:
The train set referred to in Hitachi Rail's press release, would be a modified TransPennine Express Nova 1, which is a BR Class 802/2. The standard 802/2 is primarily an EMU (25kV AC) with 3x700kW V12 turbo-diesel engines to allow it to operate on lines that aren't electrified. For the trail, one of the diesel engines has been replaced with a battery pack with an identical form factor, power output (700kW) and weight.

Their claims for the battery pack include:
  • Able to power the train set on the single battery pack for a distance of 70km
  • Able to accelerate the train set to 120km/h (75mph) from a station stop, with additional power needed from the diesel engines to reach max speed of 200km/h (125mph)
Stated plan is to create an electric-battery train set with a battery-powered range of 100 - 150 km. For reference, the Milton Line from the intersection with Metrolinx's Weston Sub to Milton GO Station is ~43km, and CN-owned Halton Sub between Bramalea GO Stn and Silver Junction west of Georgetown Station on the Kitchener Line section is ~22km.
Click to expand...
I always take mild climate range figures with a pinch of salt. I often wonder if Toronto needs two different battery chemistries so power packs get swapped out in Spring and Fall, like winter tires :)
 
It helps to keep the goal in mind.
There are peak GO runs whose equipment cycle is only one 30 mile trip inbound in the morning and one 30 mile trip outbound in the evening. One could imagine replacing these runs with batteries because the charge/discharge cycle is viable.... lesser need for stored energy and lots of layover time to recharge from shore power......but.... if the goal is carbon reduction, these runs don't produce enough carbon in diesel mode to offer a meaningful savings relative to the cost of conversion..... and the carbon savings by getting 1,000 riders out of their cars and onto a dirty diesel far exceeds the carbon savings in converting that dirty diesel to battery....so the carbon reduction is already "in the bank".
Maybe when there is a desire to eliminate diesels altogether, these runs could be converted. But having battery trains just to say we have them is not smart. Either the batteries are improved to allow all-day operation and high equipment utilisation, or we need wires.

- Paul
 
Last edited:
dowlingm said:
Their F40s too - somehow California's regulator was persuaded to issue a waiver. US$6.32m for everything (power and coaches)
Click to expand...

It is asinine that to receive funding for electrification, they had to disable their almost 40 year old F40s. Electrification isn't practical everywhere, and putting the locomotives to use somewhere that it isn't is better than most alternatives to not using them.
 
dowlingm said:
Their F40s too - somehow California's regulator was persuaded to issue a waiver. US$6.32m for everything (power and coaches)
Click to expand...
I would guess pressure from the State Department seeing how this is considered foreign aid and not a regular commercial sale.
roger1818 said:
It is asinine that to receive funding for electrification, they had to disable their almost 40 year old F40s. Electrification isn't practical everywhere, and putting the locomotives to use somewhere that it isn't is better than most alternatives to not using them.
Click to expand...
Yes, especially considering the carbon emissions impact of manufacturing the locomotives in the first place.
 
dowlingm said:
I have a feeling the MPI brand is dead, so any new locos reverting to GE, such as their P47AC proposal

Meanwhile electrek reports on a UK trial of a Hitachi battery intercity trainset. Mind you, the distances between cities in England are not exactly Canadian distances.
electrek.co

'UK-first' intercity battery trial train outperforms diesel

A "UK-first" intercity battery trial train proved that single battery technology can outperform diesel engines cost-effectively.
electrek.co electrek.co
Click to expand...
Jesus that thing looks like hell.
IRT_BMT_IND said:
I would guess pressure from the State Department seeing how this is considered foreign aid and not a regular commercial sale.

Yes, especially considering the carbon emissions impact of manufacturing the locomotives in the first place.
Click to expand...
Are you saying 40+ year old F40s are not near end of useful life??
 
ProjectEnd said:
Jesus that thing looks like hell.

Are you saying 40+ year old F40s are not near end of useful life??
Click to expand...
VIA Rail are re-rebuilding three quarters of their 1986-89 units to go until 2035 (when the rest of the legacy/long distance 1950s Budd stock is finally (allegedly) to get the chop.
 
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