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General railway discussions

Interesting. Value-added is always good.

It seems the car came up from Wisconsin & Southern which is owned by Watco which bought the Soo Subdivision (Algoma Central) from CN. It seems it is named for Lucy Stone Gardner, who was the wife of the President and CEO of Wisconsin & Southern back in the day.
 
Both groups.io and railroad.net have posts saying that Keewatin Railway Company (central Manitoba) have acquired two (or possibly more, but two at minimum) C1 bilevel passenger cars originally built for the LIRR.
 
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Something I was wondering about the link between GO trains and population growth. Is adding a GO train causing more growth in the area it serves or is this just a natural growth? If we look at places that GO now serves where it didn't, is the population growth that has happened a direct cause of having a GO train there? If a new route is added or a new extension is added, should we expect the same growth?
 
Something I was wondering about the link between GO trains and population growth. Is adding a GO train causing more growth in the area it serves or is this just a natural growth? If we look at places that GO now serves where it didn't, is the population growth that has happened a direct cause of having a GO train there? If a new route is added or a new extension is added, should we expect the same growth?
I think that's an interesting socioeconomic and statistical question, and I think you'd need a lot of data and professional analysis to find the answer. And even then, I think there'd be much to debate. External factors and transit-driven growth are both at play, and the degree which they are a factor would vary by corridor.
  • GO service probably buoys a lot of continued growth along the Lakeshore lines, and you'd find some pronounced GO-related growth in the immediate station area
  • External factors are probably the bigger factor along the Milton line, which is still suffering from constrained infrastructure
  • How do you classify:
    • The province's direction to establish Major Transit Station Areas in their official plans? Is that just an external policy direction or does that count towards "transit-related growth"?
    • The housing crisis and resulting flight from inner to outer GTA / Horseshoe communities (e.g. Hamilton, Niagara, Wellington-Waterloo, Barrie, east Durham)? Is that just people looking for affordable housing, or has GO service levels been at play?
Again, this would need to be academically researched, peer reviewed and debated.
 
Again, this would need to be academically researched, peer reviewed and debated.

I'm content to say from the bleachers that there are chickens in the mix, as well as eggs. Maybe we don't try to reduce to a linear cause-effect hypothesis.

The historical take is - the original GO build along the Lakeshore was clearly proposed as an alternative to costlier highway construction, recognizing that urban growth was already happening between Hamilton and Oshawa, and transportation (much of it peak commuting, although all-day 2-way mobility was clearly intended) needed to keep pace. The communities along the line embraced the proposal because they recognized it would support their growth (some of which was happening anyways, but there was opportunity to stoke the fires) and some communities not on the line grumbled, mostly because they were excluded.

The original GO was proposed as a three-year trial, because no one really knew that the concept would prove successful. One old-timer who worked for GO at the beginning told me they were astounded at how quickly ridership developed - within a few months it was obvious the service was justified. That ridership came from communities as-built in 1967 - so arguably GO was both a response to existing demand as well as a stimulus, and not a response, for much development that happened after that date. And that in turn led to those other communities concluding that they absolutely wanted GO also.

More recently, if you follow the remarks of suburban mayors and councillors around the GTA, they all say that GO is mission critical for their communities.

Here's a news clipping from the original GO announcement May 20 1965 - in fact the concept had been clearly expressed back to when the CN bypass was first planned and designed, but the 1965 announcement was the actual commitment decision.

- Paul

GO Announce pg 1 May 20 1965 Tor Star.jpg
GO Announcement May 20 65.png
1965.... in fact, the idea

- Paul
 
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So,if we take this a step further, had GO been successful to London,we may have seen a population bump, but it is not the only thing moving people.

Sounds like part of the planning of any future GO expansions need some sort of local planning for the inevitable growth that could happen too.
 
So,if we take this a step further, had GO been successful to London,we may have seen a population bump, but it is not the only thing moving people.

Sounds like part of the planning of any future GO expansions need some sort of local planning for the inevitable growth that could happen too.
Until the tracks to London are brought up to standard that will support 100mph trains, its a lost cause for not only the city, but the ones between them to be service by GO, let alone VIA.

Railways created new towns and cities as well help them to grows until the car came along.
 

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