General cycling issues (Is Toronto bike friendly?)

[rbt]

sorry....what...

Yeah, that was my thought, and I still don't understand what information you were intending to convey.

Here's what I originally quoted and explain my interpretation of these 3 sentences; please correct my interpretation:

Compare that to a 25% increase in the time it takes to drive it at evening rush hour. From 8 minutes to over 10. For over 20,000 vehicles daily.

Compare that to a 25% increase in the time it takes to drive it at evening rush hour.

Okay, increased travel time during evening rush period. Unknown how many are involved in evening rush period.

From 8 minutes to over 10.

I presume this is still related to evening rush period, and a bit of math (8 minutes to 10 minutes == 25% increase) checks out with that assumption.

For over 20,000 vehicles daily.

This clearly says daily so cannot be related strictly to evening rush hour. So there's mid-day, late evening/overnight, and AM rush periods mixed in too. How many are only rush period vehicles. If you meant 20k for evening rush, why did you say daily? I'm confused.

1/2 of all users are at rush hour? So only 10,000 users are impacted to the benefit of 220?

I don't understand these questions. I've not attempted to provide any information at all in this thread. You'll get more accurate answers asking questions from a brick wall on this subject.

However, I assume from your questions that there are 10k people in AM rush, 10k people in PM rush, and some additional unknown or unstated number mid-day/evening/overnight?

In short, by "daily" did you mean "20,000 vehicles are impacted by these rush period delays" and not "20,000 vehicles use the street daily"?



Incidentally, I have zero skin in this as I don't live in the neighbourhood, don't drive, don't cycle. I'm an interested passerby who read your sign and didn't understand what it meant; so asked for clarification and now feel like I got yelled at for asking.

I'd be happy to have a heated argument about the O'Hare airport runway configuration where a 15 minute rainstorm results in 90 minute+ flight delays, if you like. On the topic of bike lanes in Beaches, I have near zero knowledge.

 

[jaybe]

I'm a regular cyclist who can appreciate that Woodbine is a key artery that efficiently moves cars from Scarborough (Eglinton/Pharmacy & east & north) towards the core. Taking one lane on this route understandably has a great impact on drivers. There are other potential cycle routes to get north from the Beach that would have less impact on drivers.

 

[amnesiajune]

I have a friend who is volunteering for a Beaches East York council candidate, and he said that 95% of residents at the doorstep are opposed to the Woodbine bike lanes. Why is there so much resistance?

The bike lanes are pretty empty because of the hills, and the removal of one lane has pushed some traffic onto residential side streets which means more cars and higher speeds on those streets.

 

[steveintoronto]

A well-meant article, but misses some incredibly important points:

West-end advocates call on city to address ‘death trap’ areas for cyclists
By RAHUL GUPTAToronto.com
Thu., Sept. 13, 2018
[...]
In the Junction, Ward 13 members Helen Qu and Robert Zaichkowski cautiously cycle through the underpass at Bloor St. and Dundas Ave. W., a terrifying act at times for anyone on two wheels.

In addition to the speeding motorists, and poor visibility, there are plenty of potholes to navigate.

“Most of the time, you look straight and hope for the best, because you can’t control what’s happening behind you,” said Qu.

The presence of parked cars presents a major safety concern as the roads get narrower further west.

“By the time you hit Lansdowne (Ave.) you have to take the (vehicular) lane, otherwise you’ll get doored,” said Zaichkowski.
[...]

https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/20...to-address-death-trap-areas-for-cyclists.html

All true, it takes needing some care and *skill*...more on that in second.

THE major safety issue travelling west through that underpass? (And this indicates to me how incredibly unaware many cyclists are)

The freakin' sewer grate 30 degrees off alignment such that it *captures* slimmer front wheel tires! It's a guaranteed 'over the bars' event. And I've called the City on it twice in the last few years, still no action. If anyone wants to see it, it's immediately south of the main door into the GO station in the adjacent road gutter. It's one of the relatively 'newer' ones with an inner circular insert in a square frame, the slats are 90 degrees to each other per half circle, and intended to be aligned 45 degrees to passing wheels crossing them....except somehow work crews get the indexing screwed up on them.

How dangerous is that stretch? I'm an avid cyclist in amazing shape (I'm not bragging, I'm just repeating what the docs and other cyclists state) and I *walk* that stretch during rush hour (on the sidewalk, not ride on it like many azzholes do)(and I let them know it as a pedestrian pushing my bike) and yet I see reams of idiot cyclists streaming passed cars on the right, many of them not in control of their machines, let alone their own body English, and yet these same cyclists bitch about how dangerous it is? Of course it is, so get off your freakin' machines and use common sense. But alas...

And here's the pic of the two antagonists on Bloor:

I had an issue with these two just two days back. They don't look, they don't signal, and they have no respect for other cyclists, let alone motorists. And you don't cycle like he is in a situation like that where both of their road sense is clearly missing. She bitched at me for stopping a safe distance from cars turning north onto Dundas as I was in the motorists' blind spot, and I made a sane judgement to let them turn before doing so myself. It's a demanding corner at rush hour, motorists are stressed as it is. Why gamble your safety?

And she rang her fffffing bell at me to allow her to push past. I lost it with her, my patience grows thin. And Robert there has bad balance on his machine. He's not in control of it. Frankly, he's a menace to himself and others.

There's definitely safety issues to address on the roads. But a lot of cyclists need to look at themselves before blaming the big nasty world for not bowing to their needs and wants.

Cycling through there today, I got off and pushed my machine (easy for me, it balances by a touch on the saddle and self-steers) under both underpasses. It's just too freakin' dangerous during rush hour. So as I walk my bike on the sidewalk, I see streams of zombies pedalling for dear life on both sides of the backed-up cars, weaving between them as well as beside them, not one of the cyclists looking over their shoulder before doing so. Being arrogant is one thing, being stupid is another. And many wear helmets....phhhhh...

Rant over, I'll stay alive and in great shape. Many won't. My bet's with Darwin.

 

[Admiral Beez]

After 30 years of service, finally gave up my Maxxam Hog, like this one

https://www.google.ca/search?client..........30i10.17yFH1w-eUY#imgrc=md2Ov1Tz9Ky2PM:

And bought myself a Breeder Downtown 8. Loving this bike and it's upright riding style and hub gears.

http://www.breezerbikes.com/eu/bikes/details/downtown-8-plus

 

[Neutrino]

Wow, your bike lasted 30 years? The junk on sale at Canadian Tire hardly lasts a year even with regular maintenance. Bought myself an older Raleigh racing bike from an era when they seemed better built, but the rear wheel warped after moderate use (no damage.) Put me off cycling for good five years ago and I haven't looked back. Can anyone give me a recommendation for an affordable, well built bike and where to get one? I am beyond skeptical of nearly all consumer goods at this point.

 

[TrickyRicky]

My regular lock smith told me the other day he stopped servicing buildings on the Bloor West corridor because of the impact of the bicycle lanes.

Sure other people will do it but this is an example of the kind of inconspicuous cost inflation that this kind of access restriction creates.

I bring up these points because I feel advocates don’t see the long-term implications. I doesn’t matter for my interests because I’m already local and inflation neutral. But when you have demand pressure and you restrict access you get inflationary pressure.

Advocates like the local councillors are mistaken that promoting the lanes are progressive positions. The battle is already lost anyway as the entire core transitions to a high cost wealthy enclave with a minority living in abject poverty. So I’ve stopped being in opposition and am merely being philosophical in my argument. Bring on the bike lanes, transit ways and pedestrian only zones. The middle class can visit the action on the weekend and working people can cycle or ride transit in from their homes farther and farther from the core.

P.S. a family friend who owns a business with logistic requirements (a lot of delivery of large bulk items) recently closed their family business of 50 years. So who cares a trendy bar or restaurant or dentist will take it’s place at higher rent right?

 

[PinkLucy]

A well-meant article, but misses some incredibly important points:

https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/20...to-address-death-trap-areas-for-cyclists.html


And here's the pic of the two antagonists on Bloor:


I had an issue with these two just two days back. They don't look, they don't signal, and they have no respect for other cyclists, let alone motorists. And you don't cycle like he is in a situation like that where both of their road sense is clearly missing. She bitched at me for stopping a safe distance from cars turning north onto Dundas as I was in the motorists' blind spot, and I made a sane judgement to let them turn before doing so myself. It's a demanding corner at rush hour, motorists are stressed as it is. Why gamble your safety?

And she rang her fffffing bell at me to allow her to push past. I lost it with her, my patience grows thin. And Robert there has bad balance on his machine. He's not in control of it. Frankly, he's a menace to himself and others.

There's definitely safety issues to address on the roads. But a lot of cyclists need to look at themselves before blaming the big nasty world for not bowing to their needs and wants.

Did you know that he is a director with Cycle Toronto?

 

[W. K. Lis]

After 30 years of service, finally gave up my Maxxam Hog, like this one

https://www.google.ca/search?client..........30i10.17yFH1w-eUY#imgrc=md2Ov1Tz9Ky2PM:

And bought myself a Breeder Downtown 8. Loving this bike and it's upright riding style and hub gears.

http://www.breezerbikes.com/eu/bikes/details/downtown-8-plus

Look at all the new "toys"...

 

[steveintoronto]

Did you know that he is a director with Cycle Toronto?

Frightening...

He might mean well, but the best meaning of well is to cycle safely, and he's cut me off a number of times, not once did I see him check over his shoulder...I guess he had a log in his eye looking for splinters in others'.

 

[steveintoronto]

Look at all the new "toys"...

lol! I watched that back in the Spring, and I've got a couple of comments up that are still generating notifications of thumbs up. (edit: Mine was the "Gee, ever heard of a 'Quick Release' front wheel? You pop it off in half a second, and turn your bars sideways" comment. )(

)

I guess some of these people live for the 'latest fashion'. I was having a heart to heart with the 'Old Man of Road Racing' in Toronto (Michael Barry Sr) and the only real breakthrough he thinks has happened in the last few generations (and this only applies to drop bars anyway) is the combination brake lever and gear shifter...and even that is moot to me, I use the ultimate Simplex down bar shifters from the late 80s, albeit mine are brazed-on lug fit.

http://www.classiclightweights.co.uk/components/simplex-retrofriction-components.html
So all these "new, newer, newest" sites for me are God proving some people have too much money.

Gotta love the first comment up for that:

Gtjoshua4 months ago
I only use filtered air in my tires and Evian water in my toilets!

106

REPLY

 

[steveintoronto]

I came across an awful accident today, about three hours ago. I'm only ready to talk about it now, it's haunting me, and all one can do is warn others of the dangers.

I was cycling into town along the Humber Bay Park East Trail, and it's truly dangerous as the City has failed miserably in delineating cyclists from pedestrians from the worst offender of all (in terms of not mixing with any other use) and that's roller bladers. I must try and stay objective....

I came around a curve when a roller bladder, possibly a professional football player, well over six feet, came lurching towards me, blood streaming from his forehead. I almost hit him, he was well over the line. In a fraction of a second, I decided to let it go and continue my arc under power around the curve to hold a stable course....only to slam on the brakes to realize where the rollerblader had impacted, and a severely damaged cyclist travelling in my direction sat crumpled on the path. Fortunately she was with a small group of other cyclists, and one had already called Emerg.

I'm trying to get this right and as objectively as possible, and push the horror aside....

Her left cheek bone was badly broken and pushed in, one eye was terribly affected, she looked up at me with the other one....it's not something I'll forget for some time...she had a broken nose, and from the flash I got looking into her functioning eye...she was in shock and had a concussion. She looked at me for reassurance. I couldn't let her see the horror on my face. I had to turn away...

I mustn't dwell on that, or who caused what. The rollerblader tried to do a run from the scene, albeit he badly needed medical attention too. I decided to chase him, and I don't know what made him change his mind, he returned to the accident scene.

Best I leave it there....(edit: Evidently from debriefing one of her travelling companions, they hit head to head at speed)

Objective overview: On curves, *many* cyclists and *the overwhelming number of rollerbladers* take far too much lane space. Rollerbladers, many with headphones are *at the best of times* taking more than a lane's worth of space.

The Humber Bay Park region, and especially by the Butterfly Gardens is very dangerous in terms of far too many people not thinking about what space they are using. For the Grace of God! Mothers pushing their children in pushchairs, and toddlers on their first bikes going around blind curves with absolutely no idea of what's coming from around the curve the other way.

It's FFFing madness! And yes, almost all the users are responsible. But the City is *More Responsible* for setting people up in situations like that. What in hell is Waterfront Toronto thinking with their "shared paths"? Do trains, boats and planes "share paths"? Neither should pedestrians, cyclists and rollerbladers. Yet the City encourages them to. Waterfront Toronto encourages it in their jurisdiction.

I'm going to have to continue this later...

Late edit: Speed limits for a start. People aren't going to think, so order must be imposed for safety, and that's speeding cyclists and rollerbladers in mixed pedestrian areas. Stupidity will still cause accidents, but the severity of them will be much less than "life altering".

Or: Design it right to begin with. Where to start with that in Toronto?

 

[Neutrino]

Thanks for the heads up, Steve. Hope you're okay now. I will exercise more caution when I go for my runs on the lake shore trail.

 

[PinkLucy]

I used to ride that trail regularly. It’s can be dangerous because people don’t stay to the right, they pass unsafely, they don’t look, they ride too fast, young children are unpredictable. I came to avoid it on any nice day or around Ontario Place during events. On a chilly Tuesday afternoon in November it can be quite pleasant,, however.

As for Steve’s post, there are posted speed limits (20 kph), but there is no enforcement, and they are routinely ignored.

 

[steveintoronto]

Hope you're okay now.

I guess 'sharing' it here helped. It didn't come up in dreams and I haven't dwelled on it since except as a lesson. That young woman is going to need a plastic surgeon and a long time to heal. If ever completely.

I will exercise more caution when I go for my runs on the lake shore trail.

Blind curves! I often find my better judgment taking over on them, especially on shared paths, as so many cyclists go flying around them, especially the lycra wannabes, on the tight inside, whether it's their lane or not.

I used to ride that trail regularly. It’s can be dangerous because people don’t stay to the right, they pass unsafely, they don’t look, they ride too fast, young children are unpredictable. I came to avoid it on any nice day or around Ontario Place during events.

You've nailed it. Ontario Place is another area with blind curves. The hilly areas are lovely, which is what it's like around the Butterfly Garden stretch at Humber Bay Park, but bad design for general cycle use. You need to be able to see what's coming around that curve. Perhaps those metallic mirrors that are used in some spots should be used more. There's one on the Humber Trail southbound at the Lakeshore rail underpass. When I'm on foot with the dog, I always short leash him there, I peer around the corner before allowing him to go around it, cyclists come flying through there too with no idea of what's around the tight corner.

As for Steve’s post, there are posted speed limits (20 kph), but there is no enforcement, and they are routinely ignored.

I failed my own criteria by using that trail on the weekend. I'd taken the GO from Union especially to take the detour they're using for the weekends for the next six ones or so, and then cycled back from Long Branch. There's not many alternatives, but in retrospect, I should have taken Lakeshore Rd. That path is just way too dangerous, and you can be the safest user, and still get blindsided.

Today I'll head out to the backroads south of Guelph down to Hamilton. Valens Rd is exquisite, I've already done it too many times this year, but it's incredibly safe and quiet, and this weather may not hold.

On the up side, rail-trails are very underutilized once outside of urban areas (Hamilton's many ones are very busy in town, rarified once outside) and the distance users, runners and cyclists, tend to be....with very few exceptions come to think of it...very road and safety aware. And almost always pleasant and courteous.

Which is perhaps a clue on how to make urban trails safer: Crushed limestone instead of asphalt, at least on the 'nature trail' spots like the Butterfly Garden area.

Addendum:
Out of curiosity, I checked to see if I could find a report on the accident, no luck, on the scale of things, there were probably a hundred such ones in Toronto alone yesterday and will never be reported in the msm, but these immediately showed first search. Sobering:

Cyclists' disregard for safety on Humber Bay Shores trail ... - Toronto.com
https://www.toronto.com/.../5786644-cyclists-disregard-for-safety-on-humber-bay-sh...
Aug 6, 2015 - Collision. Palace Place resident Robin Clay shot this photograph from his ... in pain on the ground after colliding with another cyclist on the waterfront trail. ... Cyclist collisions are commonplace on the trail, Clay reported. ... People walking their dogs, pushing strollers, Rollerblading, seniors out walking.

My daily commute by bike turned me into a witness of a ... - Toronto Star
https://www.thestar.com › Opinion › Commentary
May 25, 2017 - Nothing prepared me for the accident I saw on Wednesday. ... City of Toronto to study safety measures for bike trail in wake of child's death ... wrong angle on Lake Shore Blvd. in NewToronto and fell into traffic. ... I do see that pedestrians, cyclists, joggers, drivers, and rollerbladersare far too often reckless.
Toronto wants to fix dangerous Lake Shore bike path - blogTO
https://www.blogto.com/city/2017/05/toronto-fix-dangerous-lake-shore-bike-path/
May 26, 2017 - Toronto wants to fix dangerous Lake Shore bike path ... accident and wrote about his experience and the dangers of cycling along that stretch ...
Small 'ghost bike' to be placed near Lake Shore Blvd.for young boy ...
https://www.cp24.com/.../small-ghost-bike-to-be-placed-near-lake-shore-blvd-for-young...
Jun 2, 2017 - At his Toronto home, he stands beside a child's bike - gleaming white ... to Xavier Morgan, a five-year-old who crashed his bike on a city trail and fell ... who died in a cycling accident inToronto on Wednesday, May 31, 2017.
Missing: rollerblader ‎| ‎Must include: ‎rollerblader
PressReader - Toronto Star: 2017-05-26 - City to study safety of trail in ...
https://www.pressreader.com/canada/toronto-star/20170526/282256665443986
May 26, 2017 - Cycling advocate blames child's death on city's infrastructure. ... who fell into traffic from a bike trail next to Lake Shore Blvd. W., Wednesday night. ... “This was a devastating incident,” said Jared Kolb of Cycle Toronto, ... It's for anyone riding, walking, rollerblading, skateboarding, all adjacent to a highway.

[...and so on...]

I knew this! So I'm interrogating myself why I would have risked my physical, let alone mental safety doing that stretch?

The awful truth is that it's actually safer on many roads than it is on those paths.

Late edit: The first story above is the one directly relevant to what I witnessed yesterday, save that yesterday's was on a sharp blind curve, a hillock blocks vision.

As for the other stories, they're on what always struck me as a ridiculously dangerous stretch next to Lakeshore, where the five year was killed.

I'm glad to say that I noticed that fence being up yesterday.

Headed out shortly to do distance...*in the country*! (Some trails, you're lucky to pass more than four or five other cyclists or hikers for 20 kms or more) The hardest part? Juggling the GO buses to get there! (Once in Hamilton, the bus to Aldershot makes things easy)