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General cycling issues (Is Toronto bike friendly?)

Has there been any documented cases of pedestrians being seriously injured by cyclists around here? I can't recall any off the top of my head.
What about the death of Cheng Li Jiang http://www.torontosun.com/news/columnists/joe_warmington/2009/08/11/10421651-sun.html

and the death of Nobu Okamoto? http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news...-who-fatally-struck-pedestrian/article593648/

Generally, injuries are more frequent than deaths. It's rare the media reports anything though unless someone gets killed.

I've certainly been narrowly missed by bikes more than once. On the other hand, another pedestrian walked right into me today ... seemed surprised I didn't dart out of way, despite her being 3-abreast, and me already being on the far-right of the pavement.
 
What about the death of Cheng Li Jiang http://www.torontosun.com/news/columnists/joe_warmington/2009/08/11/10421651-sun.html

and the death of Nobu Okamoto? http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news...-who-fatally-struck-pedestrian/article593648/

Generally, injuries are more frequent than deaths. It's rare the media reports anything though unless someone gets killed.

Classic nfitz. He links to 2 incidents that happened 5-10 years ago without making that clear. And he makes no mention of the 200+ pedestrians and cyclists killed by cars in Toronto since the last time even one cyclist hit a pedestrian to any serious effect.

Give it a rest, buddy. Or better, get yourself a bicycle and try it out. There's no need to be so afraid of us.
 
Classic nfitz. He links to 2 incidents that happened 5-10 years ago without making that clear. And he makes no mention of the 200+ pedestrians and cyclists killed by cars in Toronto since the last time even one cyclist hit a pedestrian to any serious effect.

The poster he replied to asked "Has there been any documented cases of pedestrians being seriously injured by cyclists around here?", and all he did was provide two examples. Do you have a problem with that?
 
The poster he replied to asked "Has there been any documented cases of pedestrians being seriously injured by cyclists around here?", and all he did was provide two examples. Do you have a problem with that?

Add one more. I was struck and it screwed up my shoulder. Luckily at the last minute I saw it coming and braced myself or else it would have been even more serious. Bike going through a red light on Queens Quay
 
Classic nfitz. He links to 2 incidents that happened 5-10 years ago without making that clear. And he makes no mention of the 200+ pedestrians and cyclists killed by cars in Toronto since the last time even one cyclist hit a pedestrian to any serious effect.
I simply answered the question.

Give it a rest, buddy. Or better, get yourself a bicycle and try it out. There's no need to be so afraid of us.
Why, are you one of the moronic car drivers I usually rail about, or have you got your head stuck deep up your imagination?
 
The poster he replied to asked "Has there been any documented cases of pedestrians being seriously injured by cyclists around here?", and all he did was provide two examples. Do you have a problem with that?

Yes I do. The correct answer is: "It is so very rare that you should not worry about it." The car is a far greater threat to all of us - let's spend our time thinking about that instead.

And to say "Of course there are many more incidents, but the media don't report on it." Well, that's classic trolling technique, isn't it?
 
Yes I do. The correct answer is: "It is so very rare that you should not worry about it." The car is a far greater threat to all of us - let's spend our time thinking about that instead.
I've said such in this thread before. Surely, one shouldn't state the obvious every time one posts.

And to say "Of course there are many more incidents, but the media don't report on it." Well, that's classic trolling technique, isn't it?
Uh no. It's simply stating the obvious. You really think that only TWO people have ever been hit by a bike.

Of course, such incidents seldom end in death; but it's clearly an issue. No, it's not as big of an issue as cars - I never said it was ... I simply answered a question.

The only classic trolling I see here is from you. You behaviour today in this thread has been nothing but trolling. It's time to pull your head out of your imagination, and apologize!
 
Maybe we can take the tone of this discussion down a notch or two? Enough troll accusations, thanks.

k10ery, as I understand it, Toronto Police doesn't track collisions that do not involve motor vehicles. That doesn't lead to the conclusion that cyclist/pedestrian collisions are "rare" or that we should not worry about them. Until recently, police also didn't track dooring incidents - that didn't mean such incidents were not regularly occurring. And while fatalities (I assume) are rare from doorings, injuries are not.

"The car is a far greater threat to all of us - let's spend our time thinking about that instead."

I don't understand this logic. Yes, cars are a bigger threat to pedestrians in that being hit by a car is much more likely to result in death. And nobody here is suggesting that cyclist and pedestrian safety vis-a-vis automobiles should be any less of a focus - in fact, I said the opposite above (that the City needs to making significantly greater investments in making cycling in this City safer). That doesn't mean that other risks to pedestrian safety should be ignored or dismissed. Suggesting that cyclists need to respect pedestrian crossings in no way detracts from efforts to make cycling safer. Every once in a while I hear "cars are more dangerous" as an excuse for cyclists failing to respect other road users, and I don't think the speakers realize to what extent such rhetoric undermines the cycling cause. The safety of all road users is paramount - there is no need for us to pick and choose.
 
Add one more. I was struck and it screwed up my shoulder. Luckily at the last minute I saw it coming and braced myself or else it would have been even more serious. Bike going through a red light on Queens Quay
I've been stating "Lakeshore bike path" when I meant 'Queen's Quay'. It is terribly laid out, but that does not explain the absolute free-for-all that many cyclists participate in there. I can *somewhat* understand the frustration with pedestrians all over the bike path, however, there's *NO* excuse for going through a red unless like some intersections (Cherry and the Lakeshore, for instance) unless there's a car waiting in your direction, the sensor won't respond to your presence.

Someone is going to get seriously hurt on Queen's Quay, if it hasn't happened already. Take note Metro Police! Especially at the island ferry line-up.
 
Has there been any documented cases of pedestrians being seriously injured by cyclists around here? I can't recall any off the top of my head.

There was an elderly guy struck by a bike on the sidewalk on Finch, I think, who died of his injuries, and also a woman struck by a bike at Dundas & Huron (non-fatal) that made the news for some reason.
 
I understand the frustration. Cyclist behaviour, including mine, needs to change and 'grow up' from today's wide-eyed, brazen and crude cycling to tomorrow's mature, Dutch-like and protocol-ingrained cycling.

Let's be honest, some cyclists, me included, tend to get carried away with a self-congratulating, sanctimonious attitude that stems from cycling being green and healthy and efficient and so on.

Those are valid points but should be kept in check lest the ego over-inflates and cause detachment from cold reality or distortion of it... such as turning a blind eye to the limitations and shortcomings of bicycles, or making cars (all, everywhere, howsoever) seem like diabolical death machines.

Instead of celebrating cycling positively in a neutral and non-pushy attitude, we instead adopt a smug and better-than-thou attitude, plus attack the car.
It's like the bitter Canadian who, instead of loving Canada, hates the US. He loves Canada not for what it is, but for what it isn't.

Why?
Because the first is too slow, boring and labour-intensive... and very difficult psychologically, because it involves restraint and patience in the face of ignorance and myths. So we give in to the second approach: getting angry is much easier and requires less effort, faster and revolutionary results are more tempting and attractive. But it's wrong. Any results we get from such an approach will be people who share our own distorted perspective, armed with a microscopic lense and finely tuned antenna for anything that shows cars as evil and bikes as good... all in a consistent, binary ying-yang.

There is only one way to change cyclist behaviour... as well as to win people over to cycling... and that is frustratingly slow and gradual debate and education.

That is to say, combatting myths and preconceived notions with a smile and an explanation, all in a civilized and patient manner.

People operate by logic and science and evidence and data... but one ingredient subliminally trumps all of those: emotion.

That's why we say "winning hearts and minds". So be kind and modest in presenting your arguments, because nothing turns off people like arrogance, even if it was supported by the very best data and evidence.
In fact, some will effectively go as far as to irrationally inflict hardship on themselves just so they can stubbornly thwart logical and scientific but arrogant and condescending efforts. Including me.
Many NIMBYs may succumb to that tactic as well, meanwhile the solution may have been just simply kindness. Instead, here they are called names and treated like garbage.

I am therefore very happy with the respectful replies to (andrewpmk) and engaging him in debate, trying to win him over. I second wislaHD.

Ignoring him, although very easy for me and on me, being a click of a button away and giving me piece of mind, is not the answer... and will only serve to increase the isolation of the cycling cause, and reinforce polarization.

Even if I am not successful in winning him over and do not convert him into a supporter, at least I could perhaps dissuade him from being my enemy and convert him into an indifferent bystander. And that's also a win.

EDIT: and even if he remains my enemy, at least I tried instead of just giving up.

Whether it's the car crowd or the bike crowd or the electric velomobile crowd, there is one common denominator: human nature. And as per usual human nature, I choose my faction based on common shared interests, slowly ideologize, and then start defending mindlessly.
Let's not get fooled into thinking cyclists are somehow cooler and different from motorists.
 
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Woohoo!

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