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General cycling issues (Is Toronto bike friendly?)

But not all streets are created equal.

It is just simply a bad decision to bike up this particular street. (Dufferin) That does not make me a poor cyclist. It make me a smart cyclist to avoid this area.

Deciding to bike the right way or even bike the wrong way on a quiet one way side street has always been the safest routes along my daily rides. I don't think it makes me selfish if my actions do not interfere with anyone else.
 
in some other countries it is legal for cyclists to bike the wrong way down a one way street.... from what I've heard, this includes most of the netherlands, parts of the UK (signed I think), and parts of Germany (signed?). then of course there are contraflow lanes in many cities...
 
But not all streets are created equal.

It is just simply a bad decision to bike up this particular street. (Dufferin) That does not make me a poor cyclist. It make me a smart cyclist to avoid this area.

It does, if you're smart in how you avoid the area. Cycling the wrong way on one-way streets is not smart - especially in a road culture where there is no provision for it.

Deciding to bike the right way or even bike the wrong way on a quiet one way side street has always been the safest routes along my daily rides. I don't think it makes me selfish if my actions do not interfere with anyone else.

How are you navigating intersections while cycling the wrong way on one-way streets? The control signals for those intersections (whether they be stop signs or stop lights, or even yield signs) won't be placed in a location visible to you (they'd be facing away from you, on the otherside other of the intersection). You're entering intersections, even on quiet streets, where you're not aware of what the prevailing control is. That sounds safest to you?
 
^All valid points - on paper - but in practice it's a different thing.

Remember that vehicles and bicycles are not equal. You should not expect them to behave as though they are.

Every street, intersection, laneway, bike lane are all subject to different variables that constantly change as the day goes on. Follow the rules all you want but common sense has to reign. There may even be a situation in which the only safe thing to do is (*gasp*) get up on the sidewalk out of harm's way. (But never ride through a throng of pedestrians).

I speak for only myself and not any other cyclist when I say that I am quite capable of approaching any intersection from any direction safely. I'm a big boy and know when it is safe to cross a street. I do not need a yield sign or stop sign to know that I must ensure that it is safe to proceed. (Unfortunately many cyclists and drivers are helpless in these instances and a growing number seem to be helpless even when following every rule to the letter).

Whenever I am on a bike I have two rules:

1. I am invisible not invincible.

2. I am a second class citizen.

That has worked for me all these years of riding all over this city (on average 20 hours/week, 8 months of the year). Oh, and I do not belong to the Stupid People's Club where membership requires you to be a cyclist that wears an iPod.

I would be curious to know if the great majority of cycling accidents/deaths happen when cyclists are doing everything they're supposed to do (that is, behaving like a car) rather than just using their own common sense.

In answer to the title of this thread: "Is Toronto bike friendly" I have to give a resounding YES for me. For other cyclists I can't say.
 
^All valid points - on paper - but in practice it's a different thing.

Remember that vehicles and bicycles are not equal. You should not expect them to behave as though they are.

Well, according to the law they are equal. I realize that a lot of cyclists don't think they're bound by the same road law as cars, but ignorance of the law isn't a defense.

Every street, intersection, laneway, bike lane are all subject to different variables that constantly change as the day goes on. Follow the rules all you want but common sense has to reign. There may even be a situation in which the only safe thing to do is (*gasp*) get up on the sidewalk out of harm's way. (But never ride through a throng of pedestrians).

Commonsense would imply that you'd follow the rules as laid out clearly for everyone - not make up your own rules to suit individual tastes. Placing yourself where you're not expected to be (coming the wrong way on a one-way street, cycling on the sidewalk or on cross-walks, etc) is very dangerous. I'm sure you've done it plenty of times to little negative result, but all it takes is one unfortunate miscalculation.

While the intention isn't to be a jerk on the roads, a lot of cyclists are unaware of how they're not only putting themselves in danger, but endangering other road users. I don't fancy having a cyclist lodge himself in my windshield because he ran a stop sign, or broke some other easily observed rule.

I speak for only myself and not any other cyclist when I say that I am quite capable of approaching any intersection from any direction safely. I'm a big boy and know when it is safe to cross a street. I do not need a yield sign or stop sign to know that I must ensure that it is safe to proceed. (Unfortunately many cyclists and drivers are helpless in these instances and a growing number seem to be helpless even when following every rule to the letter).

Taking the law, and road rules, into your own hands and coming up with your own definition for legal responsibilities is not acting in a safe manner. You do need to yield to both stop signs and other signs. The suggestion that you're above the law, and above those traffic controls, is wrongheaded.

1. I am invisible not invincible.

Well, if you're riding the wrong way on streets, and using sidewalks as short-cuts, then you have only yourself to blame if you're feeling invisible. Perhaps you should also look into more reflectors, or brighter clothing?
 
I think you're missing my point but nonetheless there's no real value in continuing this particular debate.

I feel very confident when I say I have never endangered myself or anyone else. Ever.

But for that idiot who got hit on the DVP yesterday and surely traumatized a motorist, that's a whole other sorry story.
 
I guess the common conclusion we can get out of both of your arguements is that there is a danger out there for cyclists on the roads. And we all choose our own method, whether legal or not, of personally dealing with that danger.

I think we need to do less back and forth arguing, and come together and think about what is the best solution to start saving lives.
 
I think you're missing my point but nonetheless there's no real value in continuing this particular debate.

I feel very confident when I say I have never endangered myself or anyone else. Ever.

Well, you've offered up proof for how you've done both. I think what you mean is you've been lucky enough not to have to pay for the risks you've taken. I sincerely hope that streak continues.

But for that idiot who got hit on the DVP yesterday and surely traumatized a motorist, that's a whole other sorry story.

It is another story, but it's also an extreme case of someone ignoring basic road laws and being lucky enough not to pay the ultimate price for it.
 
I think we need to do less back and forth arguing, and come together and think about what is the best solution to start saving lives.

Well, following the law is probably Step #1.

Step #2 would be lobbying for more bike lanes, and more robust cycling infrastructure within the city.
 
just a point... though vehicles and cars are both vehicles they aren't exactly equal. cyclists have some routes and rules that cars don't follow follow, just as cars have routes and rules that trucks and commercial vehicles aren't allowed to follow...same with buses etc
 
just a point... though vehicles and cars are both vehicles they aren't exactly equal. cyclists have some routes and rules that cars don't follow follow, just as cars have routes and rules that trucks and commercial vehicles aren't allowed to follow...same with buses etc

Absolutely, though there is no difference in how any of those modes deal with basic traffic signals, or flow direction.
 
Which ones? The car drivers or the bike drivers on the sidewalks? ;)
 
Just remember that everything is not so black and white when it comes to cycling in a major city and laws do not take all variables into account.

Discretionary safety should always come first.
 

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