General cycling issues (Is Toronto bike friendly?)

[k10ery]

I'll check Google Maps, thanks. I recall riding on the Martin Goodman Trail along the north side of Lakeshore to about River St., and then having to cross the road and continue onto the trail. It's been 20 odd years now, so I'm a bit foggy.

The sidewalk on the north side of Lake Shore at Cherry St. used to be marked as part of the Martin Goodman trail. It ended at Parliament, but you could take a dirt path from there west to Sherbourne. Then there was nothing until the offroad path on the south side of Lake Shore (Harbour St.), west from York St. to Spadina. (Lucy: Not from Yonge, sadly. That stretch is like a killing zone for cyclists.)

Does that ring a bell? I guess that was the route back in the 80s, before Queens Quay got developed. But the signs were up until at least 5 years ago. In contrast to what Lucy wrote, I like the Harbour St. path, which is underneath an elevated Gardiner ramp. Very urban!

 

[PinkLucy]

k1 -- I didn't say it was a good option! I haven't been down there in a couple of weeks. Can you now not take the new bike lane from York heading east, or are you still better to cut through that little parkette and go to Bay?

Coming west on my return trip from Cherry Beach area, I have always been comfortable taking the lane and riding on QQ even in the worst construction but for those who aren't, it's best to walk a short distance on the side walk in from of the new RBC building and then cut through that parkette back to the Lake Shore path.

 

[marcus_a_j]

I don't remember the route between Queens Quay/Yonge and Queens Quay/Bathurst ever being traffic free for bikes. However, this is a large component of the Queens Quay Revitalization project. In 2 months, you'll be able to get between The Beaches and The Humber without having to ride in mixed traffic.

After QQ is done, there will still be that <1km stretch west of Leslie on Unwin Ave where cyclists have to ride in mixed traffic. It is a small section that has minimal traffic. According to WaterfronToronto as part of the Baselands trails initiative, the MGT portion should be done this fall. The timeline for the rest of the trails is still TBD.

 

[LNahid2000]

After QQ is done, there will still be that <1km stretch west of Leslie on Unwin Ave where cyclists have to ride in mixed traffic. It is a small section that has minimal traffic. According to WaterfronToronto as part of the Baselands trails initiative, the MGT portion should be done this fall. The timeline for the rest of the trails is still TBD.

There's no need to go all the way south to Unwin to get to the beaches. There is a separated path on the north side of Lakeshore that works really well.

https://www.google.com/maps/search/...@43.653031,-79.338369,15z/data=!5m1!1e3?hl=en

 

[k10ery]

After QQ is done, there will still be that <1km stretch west of Leslie on Unwin Ave where cyclists have to ride in mixed traffic. It is a small section that has minimal traffic. According to WaterfronToronto as part of the Baselands trails initiative, the MGT portion should be done this fall. The timeline for the rest of the trails is still TBD.

I had no idea - this is terrific news. Good old Waterfront Toronto, still gettin things done

 

[k10ery]

k1 -- I didn't say it was a good option! I haven't been down there in a couple of weeks. Can you now not take the new bike lane from York heading east, or are you still better to cut through that little parkette and go to Bay?

Coming west on my return trip from Cherry Beach area, I have always been comfortable taking the lane and riding on QQ even in the worst construction but for those who aren't, it's best to walk a short distance on the side walk in from of the new RBC building and then cut through that parkette back to the Lake Shore path.

You may be right about east of York. Anyway it will all be academic soon, as QQ will be great at both ends and in the middle.

It's still interesting to take the Lake Shore stretches of trail (and wonder - "what were they thinking back then?")

 

[PinkLucy]

Absolutely. I used to ride down to the Beaches via Cherry Beach regularly but I generally avoid that entire stretch these days because it basically sucks. But there is light at the end of the tunnel!

 

[marcus_a_j]

There's no need to go all the way south to Unwin to get to the beaches. There is a separated path on the north side of Lakeshore that works really well.

https://www.google.com/maps/search/...@43.653031,-79.338369,15z/data=!5m1!1e3?hl=en

True. Forgot about that path. I was just thinking of breaks in the MGT.

 

[DaveFlavanoid]

This just in:

http://www1.toronto.ca/wps/portal/c...nnel=ae48a00f92dd5410VgnVCM10000071d60f89RCRD

Richmond-Adelaide Cycle Tracks Proposed Extension East to Parliament Street

Staff to present proposal to Council this Summer 2015, for potential installation in the Fall

As a continuation of this pilot project, Transportation Services is proposing to extend the Richmond Street, and Adelaide Street cycle tracks eastward, from their current eastern limits to Parliament Street. A staff report describing in detail these proposals will be presented to the Public Works and Infrastructure Committee, and City Council this summer 2015. If approved, the extensions of the pilot project will be installed this year in the fall, after the Pan Am and Para Pan Am Games. Transportation Services proposes to maintain operation and continued evaluation of the pilot project until a City Council decision is made on the recommendations of the related ongoing Municipal Class Environmental Assessment Study, targeted to be submitted to Council in the third quarter of 2016.

Was this not originally scheduled for June 2015? Was it pushed back, or am I just getting the timeline wrong.

 

[UserNameToronto]

I think it is on for June/15, per the email I got last week.

 

[the lemur]

http://www.cp24.com/news/cyclist-75...er-being-hit-by-vehicle-in-rosedale-1.2402573

I know it's a terrible thought, but perhaps the death of someone fairly prominent will be a catalyst for this city to address cycling seriously.

 

[Midtown Urbanist]

Unlikely. In North America when there is a cyclist death, society asks "whose fault is it, the cyclist or the driver?".

In places like Netherlands when there is a cyclist or pedestrian death, society asks "what's wrong with the intersection and how can we change it to prevent deaths in the future?".

Take the example of the little girl who died in Leaside recently. At the time people debated whether it was the drivers fault or the girls/parents fault, and the response was a campaign to 'drive slower' represented by lawn signs everywhere. Nobody thought to ask that maybe there is something terribly wrong with the McRae and Millwood intersection.

 

[the lemur]

Unlikely. In North America when there is a cyclist death, society asks "whose fault is it, the cyclist or the driver?".

In places like Netherlands when there is a cyclist or pedestrian death, society asks "what's wrong with the intersection and how can we change it to prevent deaths in the future?".

Take the example of the little girl who died in Leaside recently. At the time people debated whether it was the drivers fault or the girls/parents fault, and the response was a campaign to 'drive slower' represented by lawn signs everywhere. Nobody thought to ask that maybe there is something terribly wrong with the McRae and Millwood intersection.

Unfortunately, you're probably right. I'm being too idealistic, or not cynical enough.

Road safety in Leaside doesn't seem to have improved: instead of looking at the situation, people have applied a cosmetic band-aid solution ... to the debate itself.

The reaction to this latest cyclist death will probably be that it somehow 'proves' that cycling is inherently unsafe (because a driver speeding off Mount Pleasant towards Yonge can't 'reasonably' be expected to be considerate; that's asking too much) or that it doesn't matter who you are in life, swimming with sharks, heart bleeds, own fault, etc.

 

[muller877]

Unfortunately, you're probably right. I'm being too idealistic, or not cynical enough.

Road safety in Leaside doesn't seem to have improved: instead of looking at the situation, people have applied a cosmetic band-aid solution ... to the debate itself.

The reaction to this latest cyclist death will probably be that it somehow 'proves' that cycling is inherently unsafe (because a driver speeding off Mount Pleasant towards Yonge can't 'reasonably' be expected to be considerate; that's asking too much) or that it doesn't matter who you are in life, swimming with sharks, heart bleeds, own fault, etc.

...sigh...

Let us wait until the full story comes out. It was quite unfortunate but here's the facts we know (from the paper).

http://www.cp24.com/news/cyclist-75...er-being-hit-by-vehicle-in-rosedale-1.2402573

He was biking North on Wrentham Place. Wrentham Place is one block long with a stop sign at the North end and a 3-way stop sign at the south end. I am assuming he was turning left since this is the probable way in which they would have a collision.

The motorist was going eastbound on Roxborough Street. We are unsure if they were speeding or not. The motorist did not have a stop sign.

Based on this without knowing all the facts I would say that the motorist is not at fault. And this is not a "catalyst" for a change. Most people (and not just motorists) would say that you should wait until the road is clear before making a left hand turn into traffic.

It also does not prove cycling is dangerous nor does it say that the motorist was not considerate. The motorist may have been obeying all traffic rules and etiquette. If a motorist, a cyclist or a pedestrian is going to cross a street without a stop sign oncoming traffic always has the right of way.

Looking at street design, it would not make sense to have anything but the current stop sign on Wrentham Place. However, I do wonder why there is not a speed bump or other traffic calming measure on Roxborough. Is it for emergency vehicles or another reason?

 

[the lemur]

...sigh...

Let us wait until the full story comes out. It was quite unfortunate but here's the facts we know (from the paper).

http://www.cp24.com/news/cyclist-75...er-being-hit-by-vehicle-in-rosedale-1.2402573

He was biking North on Wrentham Place. Wrentham Place is one block long with a stop sign at the North end and a 3-way stop sign at the south end. I am assuming he was turning left since this is the probable way in which they would have a collision.

The motorist was going eastbound on Roxborough Street. We are unsure if they were speeding or not. The motorist did not have a stop sign.

Based on this without knowing all the facts I would say that the motorist is not at fault. And this is not a "catalyst" for a change. Most people (and not just motorists) would say that you should wait until the road is clear before making a left hand turn into traffic.

It also does not prove cycling is dangerous nor does it say that the motorist was not considerate. The motorist may have been obeying all traffic rules and etiquette. If a motorist, a cyclist or a pedestrian is going to cross a street without a stop sign oncoming traffic always has the right of way.

Looking at street design, it would not make sense to have anything but the current stop sign on Wrentham Place. However, I do wonder why there is not a speed bump or other traffic calming measure on Roxborough. Is it for emergency vehicles or another reason?

Without knowing all the facts, we can't say for sure which person was at fault beyond speculation. I am aware that I was speculating as to the speed and destination of the driver. I can't be certain of that either. We also don't know if the cyclist was turning left.

I realize I had been assuming the driver was coming from Mt Pleasant when in fact she was driving towards it. That calls into question the idea that Mr du Toit was turning or about to turn left. He could also have been about to turn right or in the process of doing so when the driver came along.

Maybe the condition of the bike (which ended up on the grass at the southeast corner of Roxborough and Wrentham) will provide some information:

I didn't say anything proved cycling was unsafe or that this particular driver was inconsiderate; there will, however, be those who blame the victim a priori and/or absolve the driver.