General cycling issues (Is Toronto bike friendly?)

[44 North]

Since the Toronto Parks thread is currently embroiled in a silly debate about whether homeless people should be allowed in parks, I decided to post this here instead.

Chorley Park plans still ‘a work in progress’

http://www.insidetoronto.com/news-story/5180883-chorley-park-plans-still-a-work-in-progress-/

Seems a bit silly. I can understand the neighbourhoood being pissed about not being notified about the loss of trees or (potential) loss of a tobogganing spot, but it seems they're roadblocking for little other reason. They knew right from the beginning a switchback trail would be put in. Obviously those take up more space than a simple staircase. Naturally trees would have to removed to accomplish this.

And plus, a switchback trail is the best that can be offered. More trail length, more accessible, usable year-round... I'd like for all our valley connections and trails to be built in such a way.

 

[salsa]

Seems a bit silly. I can understand the neighbourhoood being pissed about not being notified about the loss of trees or (potential) loss of a tobogganing spot, but it seems they're roadblocking for little other reason. They knew right from the beginning a switchback trail would be put in. Obviously those take up more space than a simple staircase. Naturally trees would have to removed to accomplish this.

And plus, a switchback trail is the best that can be offered. More trail length, more accessible, usable year-round... I'd like for all our valley connections and trails to be built in such a way.

What I find most annoying about these nimbys is that they decided to complain only after the trees have been cut down. At this point, I don't see how delaying the project is supposed to help.

 

[the lemur]

Denzil Minnan-Wong only got on a bicycle, for the first time, after he was elected Councillor. And he became chair under Rob Ford.

See link.


So it is a honest question.

I knew that about DMW, but why should we assume Robinson is anything like him?

 

[Electrify]

Perhaps we should be looking at making adult training wheels and tricycles more socially acceptable? While I know how to ride a bike, I cannot skate or ski so I can understand how some may feel rejected from bike culture, even if they have the physical stamina and strength and want to change travel modes.

On a slightly separate topic, on Twitter's #bikeTO stream I am annoyed by how whiny some cyclists in this city are. They rant about parked cars and buses stopping in bike lanes, and even that there is snow in them!

This is Canada and there is going to be snow and it is going to be pushed to the side of the road - regardless of if there is a bike lane or not. If you want to bike in winter this is something you have to accept. While parking is illegal, I do not believe stopping is. So yes, you may have to yield or go around a bus loading and unloading passengers.

And even with parked cars, is it that hard to go around them? Though my bike is currently out of service and in need of repair, there is a short stretch of residential street which has a bike lane that usually has at least a couple of cars parked on them. Do I rant on Twitter about how this is the greatest injustice in the history of mankind? No, I go around them. It is not that hard.

 

[junctionist]

No one likes people stopping in their through lane. The cars could just stop next to the bike lane. If there's a bike lane, it shouldn't be used for snow storage. Roads can be plowed to be clear up to the curb.

 

[spider]

Roads can be plowed to be clear up to the curb.

Yes they can and all that snow should be dumped on the sidewalk. I mean it's not like pedestrians really matter and after all someone might venture out on their bike this winter and they are entitled to their entitlements now aren't they.

 

[Electrify]

No one likes people stopping in their through lane. The cars could just stop next to the bike lane. If there's a bike lane, it shouldn't be used for snow storage. Roads can be plowed to be clear up to the curb.

Kind of like how drivers feel when behind a streetcar...

If the bus did stop in the through lane, cyclists would still have to yield for passengers anyways. At least this way they can go around safely.

 

[the lemur]

What I find most annoying about these nimbys is that they decided to complain only after the trees have been cut down. At this point, I don't see how delaying the project is supposed to help.

There are some who complain that there was no consultation before the work began, but I'm pretty sure it was widely advertised - it's just convenient for them to paint themselves as being excluded and conspired against.

It also never occurs to them that the current access from the park down the slope to the Belt Line trail probably involved the loss of trees a long time ago, or that the area below is full of invasive tree species and trees left to rot and fall. What's a few trees here and there?

 

[the lemur]

Perhaps we should be looking at making adult training wheels and tricycles more socially acceptable? While I know how to ride a bike, I cannot skate or ski so I can understand how some may feel rejected from bike culture, even if they have the physical stamina and strength and want to change travel modes.

On a slightly separate topic, on Twitter's #bikeTO stream I am annoyed by how whiny some cyclists in this city are. They rant about parked cars and buses stopping in bike lanes, and even that there is snow in them!

This is Canada and there is going to be snow and it is going to be pushed to the side of the road - regardless of if there is a bike lane or not. If you want to bike in winter this is something you have to accept. While parking is illegal, I do not believe stopping is. So yes, you may have to yield or go around a bus loading and unloading passengers.

And even with parked cars, is it that hard to go around them? Though my bike is currently out of service and in need of repair, there is a short stretch of residential street which has a bike lane that usually has at least a couple of cars parked on them. Do I rant on Twitter about how this is the greatest injustice in the history of mankind? No, I go around them. It is not that hard.

Stopping is prohibited where it says so.

It's not really a problem to have to go around, but then to some drivers that appears to be a violation of some unwritten you-must-always-be-in-the-bike-lane-no-matter-what rule and god forbid you should have to do so quickly because of a car pulling in ahead of you, with just a shoulder check and not enough time to signal. There are a few bike haters who use the #bikeTO hashtag to rail against cyclists - that's part of how the ranting starts.

 

[the lemur]

Yes they can and all that snow should be dumped on the sidewalk. I mean it's not like pedestrians really matter and after all someone might venture out on their bike this winter and they are entitled to their entitlements now aren't they.

Did someone say the sidewalks couldn't/wouldn't be plowed/cleared as well?

 

[junctionist]

There's usually some space between the curb and the part of the sidewalk that pedestrians actually use.

 

[spider]

There's usually some space between the curb and the part of the sidewalk that pedestrians actually use.

Do you cyclists have no idea how silly you sound. The space you are referring to is where we see abandoned bikes chained up for months isn't it.

Did someone say the sidewalks couldn't/wouldn't be plowed/cleared as well?

Plowed and cleared are not the same thing, plows do not remove snow from the street they relocate it from one part of the street allowance to another. Are you suggesting that unremoved snow be piled up on sidewalks and roads rather than bike lanes that are not used in winter because bikes are more important than motor vehicles (including transit vehicles) or pedestrians? Just curious.

 

[junctionist]

If the streets aren't plowed, driving is stupid with a foot of snow. You get stuck really fast. Don't waste your time with insults. Let's deploy the machinery to clear the bike lanes an car lanes and make it happen. People want to cycle. Properly cleared streets are better for everyone.

 

[the lemur]

Do you cyclists have no idea how silly you sound. The space you are referring to is where we see abandoned bikes chained up for months isn't it.

Plowed and cleared are not the same thing, plows do not remove snow from the street they relocate it from one part of the street allowance to another. Are you suggesting that unremoved snow be piled up on sidewalks and roads rather than bike lanes that are not used in winter because bikes are more important than motor vehicles (including transit vehicles) or pedestrians? Just curious.

I'm aware that plowed and cleared are not the same thing, hence the / to indicate 'or'. One or the other. Sidewalks that are plowed or shovelled still end up with a snowbank sometimes even when the street either doesn't have a bike lane or is cleared to the curb.

And no, I am not suggesting dumping snow on sidewalks because of anything to do with the relative importance of any type of vehicle or lane. That is entirely your projection.

 

[the lemur]

If the streets aren't plowed, driving is stupid with a foot of snow. You get stuck really fast. Don't waste your time with insults. Let's deploy the machinery to clear the bike lanes an car lanes and make it happen. People want to cycle. Properly cleared streets are better for everyone.

Exactly. Snow removal needs to happen so that everyone can get around in the manner of their choice, especially walking.