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General cycling issues (Is Toronto bike friendly?)

k10ery said:
Anybody who's dealt with these on-sidewalk bike paths in Europe knows that as a pedestrian you make that mistake once or twice, but after getting buzzed by bikes a few times you start remembering to check. Respect!
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That's true, although it would be nice to have the footpath and bike track separated by something more than just paint, to remind users of both. Maybe a curb, perhaps in the form of grade separation?
 
There's little separation there because the Martin Goodman trail is technically a multi-use trail. When cycle paths are installed specifically for bicycles there will be some grade separation to alert people with sight disabilities that they are no longer on the sidewalk.
 
k10ery said:
Anybody who's dealt with these on-sidewalk bike paths in Europe knows that as a pedestrian you make that mistake once or twice, but after getting buzzed by bikes a few times you start remembering to check. Respect!
Click to expand...

If we're talking about proper bicycle infrastructure as one would find in the Netherlands or Denmark, then they weren't "on-sidewalk" paths to begin with. They are very distinct and different from a sidewalk, designed for operating speeds four times as high.

This misunderstanding is how we end up with so much nice-looking infrastructure here which is actually dangerous to ride on because it's just a wide asphalt sidewalk.

The MGT along Ontario Place comes to mind, as does the Queensway bike path in Mississauga.
 
reaperexpress said:
If we're talking about proper bicycle infrastructure as one would find in the Netherlands or Denmark, then they weren't "on-sidewalk" paths to begin with. They are very distinct and different from a sidewalk, designed for operating speeds four times as high.
Click to expand...

Bike infrastructure in Denmark and the Netherlands is top notch.

In comparison, most of the bike facilities I came across in Germany looked like this:

path-both-sides.jpg
 
CDL.TO said:
Bike infrastructure in Denmark and the Netherlands is top notch.

In comparison, most of the bike facilities I came across in Germany looked like this:

(IMG)
Click to expand...

Indeed, it is unfortunate that many people are under the impression that German cycle track designs are worth emulating. I think even among planners and engineers, there is a lack of understanding about the differences in design between European countries. Some seem to think "European" means good, but there is quite a lot of very poor infrastructure over there too.
 
reaperexpress said:
If we're talking about proper bicycle infrastructure as one would find in the Netherlands or Denmark, then they weren't "on-sidewalk" paths to begin with. They are very distinct and different from a sidewalk, designed for operating speeds four times as high.

This misunderstanding is how we end up with so much nice-looking infrastructure here which is actually dangerous to ride on because it's just a wide asphalt sidewalk.

The MGT along Ontario Place comes to mind, as does the Queensway bike path in Mississauga.
Click to expand...


?

42802116_f07ded3123.jpg
 
reaperexpress said:
Indeed, it is unfortunate that many people are under the impression that German cycle track designs are worth emulating. I think even among planners and engineers, there is a lack of understanding about the differences in design between European countries. Some seem to think "European" means good, but there is quite a lot of very poor infrastructure over there too.
Click to expand...

I'm not even sure what to picture when it comes to cycle tracks in Germany, because there's a lot of the shared sidewalk nonsense going on in places like Berlin that make for lousy biking AND walking.

The idea that Europe somehow has a homogeneity of infrastructure when it comes to biking or walking is puzzling, just like the notion that Amsterdam should be the only place to look at in terms of biking (either because it's some sort of utopia for cyclists or because it's choked with bikes and therefore hellish, depending on your viewpoint).
 
Meanwhile almost 3,000 Canadians are killed every year by cars and trucks, while thousands of others are left disfigured or disabled.

If we were more like the silly danes or the dutch, who prioritise pedestrians and cyclists over cars - and design car infrastructure thinking of safety rather than speed - we would spare the lives of 1,500 Canadians a year. Every year.

The transportation sector continues to be the largest cause of greenhouse gas emissions and pollution in our cities - causing hundreds or thousands of premature deaths due to respiratory illnesses.

P.S. The road tax - both here and in the uk - is a conservative fairytale with no actual basis.
 
Saw this in the comments section of the Star today...

Rules for cycling in Toronto:

1. STOP signs are yield signs, except when there is a car at intersection with right of way, then STOP sign does not exist. Also, if gaining speed from a stop would be hard for you, STOP sign can be ignored.
2. You must stop at RED traffic light, but you may proceed through as soon as cross traffic clears or when light facing cross traffic turns YELLOW, because hey, drivers always slam on their brakes and come to a screeching halt when their light turns YELLOW.
3. At pedestrian crossings, and at intersection crosswalks, as long as you don't hit the pedestrian you are fine, keep going through.
4. When passing open streetcar doors, same as above, keep going through but try not to hit anyone.
 
via The Record:

Ontario seeks to boost pedal power with safety blitz
Transportation minister seeks to make cycling more popular through police crackdown on cyclists who ignore traffic rules
TORONTO — A police crackdown on bike riders who ignore traffic rules could boost safety and make getting around by pedal power more popular, says Ontario's new cycling strategy obtained by the Toronto Star.

To be released Friday by Transportation Minister Glen Murray, the 20-year plan is aimed at creating an environment where more people will take their bikes to work, school and on errands to ease smog, gridlock and boost their health.
Click to expand...

The Record has been on a "blame the cyclist" kick lately, which explains why the headline (and sub headline) focus on these two lines of the article:
On scofflaw riders, the strategy cites a survey in which only 18 per cent of cyclists say their fellow bike riders follow the rules of the road — such as stopping at stop signs and traffic lights.

"This suggests that higher and more consistent levels of enforcement for cyclists and drivers would increase both the reality and perception of cycling as a safe activity," states the plan.
Click to expand...

...and doesn't really touch on the rest, which talks about complete streets, filling in missing links in the cycling infrastructure, and revising laws to incorporate bicycles.
 
Admiral Beez said:
Saw this in the comments section of the Star today...

Rules for cycling in Toronto:

1. STOP signs are yield signs, except when there is a car at intersection with right of way, then STOP sign does not exist. Also, if gaining speed from a stop would be hard for you, STOP sign can be ignored.
2. You must stop at RED traffic light, but you may proceed through as soon as cross traffic clears or when light facing cross traffic turns YELLOW, because hey, drivers always slam on their brakes and come to a screeching halt when their light turns YELLOW.
3. At pedestrian crossings, and at intersection crosswalks, as long as you don't hit the pedestrian you are fine, keep going through.
4. When passing open streetcar doors, same as above, keep going through but try not to hit anyone.
Click to expand...

I can see that some or all of those are true for a certain segment of cyclists (esp. 1 and 3), but not the majority, and it seems like any discussion of making cycling better/safer brings out a certain kind of comment troll who implies that nothing should be done because cyclists are supposedly all scofflaws, or 98% are scofflaws, etc.

I treat stop signs as yields on a bike because most of the time there is no other traffic, and when there is, it's usually a driver who has no clue about four-way stops or the right of way rules and who sits there, waving me and others on despite being the one who should go first. For some reason it's worse when it's a simple T-stop - go watch the traffic at Bremner and Rees and you will see drivers paralyzed by indecision, trying to determine the order of precedence by means of telepathy.

For a certain segment of drivers, the rules are:

1. Stop signs are for rolling through
2. Right turns, on red or otherwise, do not require slowing or stopping, nor are you expected to look out for pedestrians - those 'Yield to pedestrians' signs are purely decorative vestiges of a bygone era
3. Right turns mean you can creep through a mass of pedestrians on a crossing
4. You do not need to signal a right turn if you are already stopped, change your mind or forget to signal to begin with, or if you indicate your intention to turn simply by veering close to the curb.
 
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