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General cycling issues (Is Toronto bike friendly?)

The issue here though is we know from data, facts, studies from every angle around the world that ripping out bike lanes won't do a damn thing to fight congestion in and around Toronto.

There is no ROI to doing it.

What percentage of roads in the GTA have bike lanes? 1% or less? So something that does not exist in 99% of roads and all highways somehow is going to magically make congestion better? It's utter nonsense and the premier likely knows it.

I live in Toronto and own a car too, I fully know traffic sucks, but let's put time and money into real solutions.
I don't think anything is universally true. I support the vast majority of the bike lanes and I think Fords overreach is appalling!

On the flipside I don't think the moves the city has made have been totally logical. I think the first step should have been protecting existing unprotected bike lanes.
 
The issue here though is we know from data, facts, studies from every angle around the world that ripping out bike lanes won't do a damn thing to fight congestion in and around Toronto.

There is no ROI to doing it.

What percentage of roads in the GTA have bike lanes? 1% or less? So something that does not exist in 99% of roads and all highways somehow is going to magically make congestion better? It's utter nonsense and the premier likely knows it.

I live in Toronto and own a car too, I fully know traffic sucks, but let's put time and money into real solutions.
What you are stating here is an opinion, not facts.

Removing bike lanes from individual streets will reduce congestion on those streets; at least in theory. Every time the installation of a bike lane is researched, they invariably conclude that commutes/trips will increase in time by some amount. What the city and council has concluded is those additional times in traffic are offset by other factors which they deem are improvements to the overall street (safety/health/etc.). Also, every bike lane study that I have reviewed shows increased times in traffic & assumes a reduction in the amount of cars/trucks on those routes.

Your comment about overall congestion city wide is silly. Of course if one were to remove bike lanes on Yonge St., it would not have an impact to traffic on Kennedy Rd., but it will have an impact on Yonge St.

Anyway, I don't want to people yelling at me, but I don't believe an opinion should be misrepresented as a fact.

Lastly, there is some debate about whether the majority of people want or don't want bike lanes. I have no idea, but there are clearly a lot of people on both sides of the issue who are passionate in their opinions. If we assume it's 50/50 approve/disapprove of bike lanes (I have no idea what the real figure is), then Premier Ford will gain as many supporters as he will lose. The big issue that people on here are missing is that regardless of votes, this issue/dispute is a huge campaign fundraising generator.
 
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What you are stating here is an opinion, not facts.

This is not correct.

The statement was about congestion in Toronto writ large, and therefore the problem about which some drivers are understandably plaintive.

The majority of congestion as experienced by the majority of drivers occurs on highways, followed, typically, by select roads which serve as entry/exit points from same (see York and Spadina and Harbour in downtown).

There are no cycle tracks on University south of Adelaide, or York south of University, nor on Spadina, while Habour has a multi-use path above curb level.

None of the highways have cycle tracks.

Ergo, the conclusion inferred is that removing all bike lanes would benefit a relatively small portion of any congestion experienced by the typical Toronto commuter on any given day.

I don't see how one could possibly draw any other conclusion. We could attempt the math on exactly what percentage of commuters might benefit and by exactly how much; but that it would be few and very little isn't really in doubt.

Removing bike lanes from individual streets will reduce congestion on those streets; at least in theory.

Plausibly; but that certainly isn't a fact. It would depend on what condition you returned those curb lanes to. In most cases, they were on-street parking 22 hours per day, M-F and 24 hours per day on weekends.

In which case, at best, the impact would be a marginal one for two hours per day, on weekdays, in one direction at a time only.

Typically, when cycle tracks are put in, travel time impacts are mitigated by adding and lengthening left turn lanes. In some cases, removing the bike lanes may necessitate shortening or removing said turn lanes, partially offsetting any gain.

Of course, the City could also choose to do any number of things w/the space were the cycle tracks removed............and could impose any number of changes or restrictions which would eliminate any benefit.

Also, every bike lane study that I have reviewed shows increased times in traffic & assumes a reduction in the amount of cars/trucks on those routes.

Generally, this is true; but conversely, removing the cycle tracks would generally make an assumption of an increased number of cars using that stretch of road, which would again offset, at least partially, any benefit drivers might gain from removing said lanes.

Your comment about overall congestion city wide is silly. Of course if one were to remove bike lanes on Yonge St., it would not have an impact to traffic on Kennedy Rd., but it will have an impact on Yonge St.

It wasn't silly. What most drivers care about is their daily commute, if most drivers aren't on Yonge north of Bloor each day, they couldn't care one whit about how well it does or does not move.

If the desire is to move traffic more quickly on the Gardiner, the 401 or Spadina/York, different investments in both roads and transit are required.

Lastly, there is some debate about whether the majority of people want or don't want bike lanes. I have no idea, but there are clearly a lot of people on both sides of the issue who are passionate in their opinions. If we assume it's 50/50 approve/disapprove of bike lanes (I have no idea what the real figure is), then Premier Ford will gain as many supporters as he will lose. The big issue that people on here are missing is that regardless of votes, this issue/dispute is a huge campaign money generator.

This is potentially more accurate. However, its a lousy basis for making public policy.
 
The big issue that people on here are missing is that regardless of votes, this issue/dispute is a huge campaign fundraising generator.
In other words, it's all about using this as fuel in a culture war designed to enrage his supporters.
Instead of scapegoating Jews or immigrants, this time it's "cyclists" and clearly Ford doesn't care if they live or die because he thinks they won't vote for him anyway.
 
TBF it's funny everyone is acting as if this is the only time a decision where deaths are a trade off is made. The $200 rebate checks could go to healthcare and save lives, closing YTZ which so many people are in favor of would lead to lives lost (by disconnecting the downtown hospitals from organ transfers and air ambulances)
The connections are certainly not as clear with budget issues.

I'm not sure how closing YTZ (and Toronto's only air ambulance base!) saves lives.

Budget items don't need engineer sign-off. Engineers are required to always put human life first - ahead of client and other public interests. Politicians (and accountants, and lawyers) aren't required to do that.
 
What you are stating here is an opinion, not facts.

Removing bike lanes from individual streets will reduce congestion on those streets; at least in theory. Every time the installation of a bike lane is researched, they invariably conclude that commutes/trips will increase in time by some amount. What the city and council has concluded is those additional times in traffic are offset by other factors which they deem are improvements to the overall street (safety/health/etc.). Also, every bike lane study that I have reviewed shows increased times in traffic & assumes a reduction in the amount of cars/trucks on those routes.

Your comment about overall congestion city wide is silly. Of course if one were to remove bike lanes on Yonge St., it would not have an impact to traffic on Kennedy Rd., but it will have an impact on Yonge St.
 
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Your comment about overall congestion city wide is silly. Of course if one were to remove bike lanes on Yonge St., it would not have an impact to traffic on Kennedy Rd., but it will have an impact on Yonge St.

It's not silly if the purpose of Bill 212 is to reduce congestion.

As it stands, Bill 212 will literally accomplish nothing to help congestion.

Not even counting the 401, DVP, Gardiner, 404, which are the worst spots - let's look at Toronto's busiest intersections.

Here is a list of the 10 Toronto intersections with the most traffic congestion in 2022:

1. Lake Shore Boulevard East & Lower Sherbourne Street

2. Finch Avenue West & Norfinch Drive/Oakdale Road

3. Finch Avenue West & 400 South Finch Westbound Ramp

4. Finch Avenue West & 400 North Finch Eastbound Ramp

5. Finch Avenue West & Signet Drive/Arrow Road

6. Lawrence Avenue East & Scarborough Golf Club Road

7. Lake Shore Boulevard East & Bay Street

8. Steeles Avenue East & Pharmacy Avenue/ Esna Park Drive

9. Islington Avenue & Finch Avenue West

10. Lake Shore Boulevard East & Parliament Street


You know what is not on any of them? Bike Lanes. (Exception of Bay & Sherbourne but those bike lanes did NOT remove a lane of traffic since the road is too narrow). Congestion here is called by cars merging into the one lane that goes onto the Gardiner. Nothing to do with cycling.

So again where is the ROI on spending tens of millions and putting streets back into construction for months? There's no benefit.
 
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The issue here though is we know from data, facts, studies from every angle around the world that ripping out bike lanes won't do a damn thing to fight congestion in and around Toronto.

Like you I also live in Toronto, own a car and take the TTC regularly.
Roads have been static for 40+ years, meanwhile the city has grown very much over that same time period.

Removing traffic lanes in favour of bike lanes does not make sense in this context.

People would not have such ruffled feathers had bike lanes been implemented in a better way, and according to some underlying data.
Blanketing roads with bike lanes is akin to blanketing ideology across the land.
 
6. Lawrence Avenue East & Scarborough Golf Club Road
That surprises me - but I don't often travel through there.

8. Steeles Avenue East & Pharmacy Avenue/ Esna Park Drive
I'm not sure I believe that one. I frequently drove through there on my recent commute. Nothing noteworthy about that one. I've seen far worse - even on days I drove through that one!
 
Removing traffic lanes in favour of bike lanes does not make sense in this context.

It actually does, as does removing car lanes in favour of bus lanes, because both bus and bike lanes are more efficient in throughput than car lanes. If you are growing, your transportation design is completely clogged up, and there's no room for more car lanes, you have to look at making more efficient transportation more attractive to more people.

Even if the four car lanes on Bloor/Yonge were perfect right now and the six car lanes on University are perfect right now, car-oriented growth will overwhelm them in the medium-, not even long-term. That's why you need bike lanes. And that's why we will need streetcar-only lanes on King, Queen, Dundas and College eventually, and bus lanes on more suburban streets - even at the expense of car lanes.

As you can see from the last post, the worst non-highway congestion is in places where nobody rides a bike. And you're not going to be adding lanes there while tens of thousands of people move in, so congestion isn't going to get any better by catering to cars. You need to provide alternatives.
 
I imagine the majority of congestion hours is actually on local streets, not expressways.

Waiting one extra light cycle adds 1-2 minutes to a drive - to need an extra 1-2 minutes of time on a freeway, you need to travel 1.6 kilometres at 50km/h instead of 100km/h.

That said - bike lanes are definitely not a major contributor writ large across the city, as they simply don’t exist across the city.

They absolutely *can* be major contributors in local areas they do exist in though. Bloor West Village is the prime example.

The discussion should be a lot more nuanced. Certain lanes in certain locations have huge cyclist volumes with minor traffic impacts - they make sense. Lanes like Bloor St in the Annex and through Downtown come to mind.

Others have low cyclist volumes and high traffic impacts - and need a bit more scrutiny. These include lanes like Bloor West Village. They are creating significant amounts of additional local congestion in the area to support a relatively small number of cyclists. Maybe they still make sense - maybe not, but I don’t think criticism needs to be immediately dismissed.
 
Like you I also live in Toronto, own a car and take the TTC regularly.
Roads have been static for 40+ years, meanwhile the city has grown very much over that same time period.

Removing traffic lanes in favour of bike lanes does not make sense in this context.

People would not have such ruffled feathers had bike lanes been implemented in a better way, and according to some underlying data.
Blanketing roads with bike lanes is akin to blanketing ideology across the land.

The only "better way" would have been removing all on street parking downtown on major roads and putting bike lanes that way. Outside of that there is no new streets or lanes going in, nor should there be.

This is still an option but honestly should be done.

Ontario and Toronto have been car centric for decades. We started building transit in the 50s and 60s then completely stopped until recently. Maintaining the status quo, while thousands of people move into the city will continue to spiral congestion.

Hell, even LA, one of the most car centric cities finally learned this and for a few years now has been building out their subway and LRT lines extensively to what will put Toronto to shame by the end of it.
full-build-out-map-of-metros-long-range-plan-v0-57b7eoyv1k3b1.jpg


And GASP - they even have extensive bike lanes on major arterial roads.
 
The only "better way" would have been removing all on street parking downtown on major roads and putting bike lanes that way. Outside of that there is no new streets or lanes going in, nor should there be.

This is still an option but honestly should be done.

Just a reminder that the Parking Strategy is out for public input right now....... so this is the time to share such sentiments with the right people.

https://cotsurvey.chkmkt.com/parkingstrategy. Survey closes Nov. 26th.

Reiterated notes about the above.......its lengthy (about 15M), you'll want to fill in the comment boxes to provide details/evidence.

Ontario and Toronto have been car centric for decades. We started building transit in the 50s and 60s then completely stopped until recently. Maintaining the status quo, while thousands of people move into the city will continue to spiral congestion.

Hell, even LA, one of the most car centric cities finally learned this and for a few years now has been building out their subway and LRT lines extensively to what will put Toronto to shame by the end of it.
full-build-out-map-of-metros-long-range-plan-v0-57b7eoyv1k3b1.jpg


And GASP - they even have extensive bike lanes on major arterial roads.

To be clear, the LA Plan will not put Toronto to shame, even if implemented, which is a very long way off.

Not all those colourful lines will be rail, and not more than a couple will be subway.
 
Just a reminder that the Parking Strategy is out for public input right now....... so this is the time to share such sentiments with the right people.

https://cotsurvey.chkmkt.com/parkingstrategy. Survey closes Nov. 26th.

Reiterated notes about the above.......its lengthy (about 15M), you'll want to fill in the comment boxes to provide details/evidence.

Thanks filling it out now.
 
Removing traffic lanes in favour of bike lanes does not make sense in this context.
How do you make sense of that in the face of recent housing developments with enough bike parking for each unit but the same not being the case for car parking? Bloor between Kipling and Sherbourne will see 23,000+ more units in the near future, and many of those people will have no car but will have bike parking. Let's not forget how much safer for pedestrians with a bicycle lane as a buffer instead of right beside moving cars. With the city growing so much -- with many people who won't have the option to have a car -- how does it make sense in that context to prioritize traffic lanes?

I'll also add:
Prior to the installation of the bike lanes on Bloor Street between Avenue Road and Shaw Street there were documented safety issues. Between 2008 and 2015, there was an average of 20 injury collisions annually involving a person cycling. Collision data
between 2017 and 2024 after the installation of bike lanes shows that despite the 40-90% increase in cycling volume, the number of people cycling injured in collisions with motorized vehicles has fallen to an average of 15 injury collisions per year, representing a 56% reduced collision rate. In addition, the data showed a drop in pedestrian injury collisions from 13 per year to 5 per year, while motorist injuries have reduced from 29 injuries per year to 21 injuries per year reflecting the overall safety improvement for all road users.
source
 

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