Frequent helicopter noise

[EnviroTO]

By the way, this may be ironic -- I feel that the more common "air ambulances", while potentially saving lives, are a health hazard in themselves. They may be responsible for many poorly rested people getting behind the steering wheel of a car -- dangerous stuff. I do hope that the hospitals and residents in outlying also "feel the pain", not just we downtowners.

Oh yes, a tired person behind the wheel is very scary... something that would hardly ever happen if not for the helicopter that was over the neighbourhood yesterday. What a nice sentiment that you want others to "feel the pain". NIMBY much?

 

[kEiThZ]

There are Helicopter tours of the city available from the Island Airport. They're pretty popular in the summer months. So that might be more likely?

Doubt they run at 4 in the morning....and its doubtful they fly so low and circle Riverdale.

 

[yin_yang]

in a decade of living downtown, i have never been woken by anything ever. you, sir, are a whiner.

 

[Promagstyle]

Helicopters

Just by looking at this thread about the compliant of the Helicopter Noise that most of you have heard or been woken up with the sound of the helicopter over your house or apartment and have commented on this thread.

I'm speaking as a Airplane Fanatic, because if you recall about 20 years ago Helicopters sounded more loudly and the rotors were heard even miles away, that even the enemy can hear the approaching aircraft.

Helicopters were built for a purpose and they were built for flight, they are currently in service all around the Globe. They are in combat fields and assisting in heroic rescue operations; they work in both land and sea.

I can understand that some of you might be upset at the noise of the Helicopters, but in the future or as technology improves, the sound of the helicopters will be almost as quiet to a General Electric 90 Jet Engine.

I appreciate the Medivac service that Orange has also the other Helicopter Companies that operate out of the Toronto City Island Airport.

But until then... a Medivac Helicopter can travel four times faster than a regular Ford - Crestliner Body - Ambulance and will not get caught in traffic and also it will get to a Hospital quicker than the four wheeled Ambulance. The Air Ambulance can also go to remote areas where automobiles cannot travel.

This is just my two cents.

 

[jn_12]

Doubt they run at 4 in the morning....and its doubtful they fly so low and circle Riverdale.

Obviously didn't mean it like that. I missed the part in the post I quoted where he mentioned that he sits up late at night and sees them then. Thought he said he sees them all the time throughout the day. Just a misread.

 

[TonyV]

This has been fun, watching the responses roll in.

Some pros, some antis, some name calling, and some predictably vitriolic responses from some dreary status-quo "any noise is good noise" types.

I've been living in downtown Toronto for 30 years and have always loved it. I've been able to sleep with windows open while streetcars squeeked around corners and sirens howled ... never complained.

The consensus in my field of acquaintance is that the overhead rotor noise has increase hugely in the past three years. So, some of you don't notice, while guests in my tiny backyard court (over, for example, Sunday bbq) have really noticed. And yes, the overnight helicopters really do sometimes sound like they're about 100 feet up ...

I close my windows now, at night. The pharmacist is saying that earplugs are selling very well, "can't keep the shelves stocked".

To those of you who say "at least it's not like _______ or _______, well, we went off to Paris last autumn and found it blissfully calm compared to Toronto. The only helicopter around was a sole security one during the pope's visit.

Moving to the country as an option? That would be like death itself. There's not much to like about rural Ontario, save perhaps Stratford.

I hope the helicopter enthusiast is correct ---quieter rotors coming some time soon. I'd like to thank him for responding.

 

[scarberiankhatru]

The York Region police copter has been waking up people in the north part of the city for years now.

 

[kEiThZ]

I hope the helicopter enthusiast is correct ---quieter rotors coming some time soon. I'd like to thank him for responding.

He's wrong. Although tip devices can reduce vortices and drag (which creates a lot of the helicopter's noise) there will be no way a helicopter will be less noisy than any airplane. The aerodynamics of helicopters don't allow for it. What you are hearing are the blade tips operating in the high sub-sonic speed range as they rotate. The closer they get to the speed of sound, the louder they get. The only consolation is that, should a helicopter's rotor ever break the sound barrier, the accompanying stresses and vibration would tear off or destroy the rotor and the helicopter thereafter.

 

[Promagstyle]

MD 600 Helicopter

"MESA, Ariz., Dec. 10, 1997 -- A new era of quieter helicopter operations for environmentally sensitive areas will be commemorated by The Boeing Company during a special ceremony Dec. 16 in Tusayan, near Grand Canyon National Park.

The ceremony will recognize steps taken by AirStar Helicopters, Papillon Grand Canyon Helicopters and the National Park Service to assist in preserving the canyon's natural quiet.

AirStar operates the eight-place, single-engine MD 600N for tours and is the first to put the aircraft into air tour service. Papillon flies the eight-place, twin-engine MD Explorer under contract with the National Park Service for a variety of missions, including search and rescue, firefighting and humanitarian service.

Both the MD 600N and the MD Explorer are equipped with the NOTAR® anti-torque system, which replaces the conventional tail rotor and provides exceptionally safe and quiet performance. Boeing's NOTAR system-equipped helicopters -- the MD 600N, MD Explorer and MD 520N -- are certified by the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) as the world's quietest helicopters.

By selecting the MD Explorer and the MD 600N, the National Park Service and AirStar are among the first to commit to reducing aircraft noise over the Grand Canyon.

Proposed FAA regulations would require all Grand Canyon air tour operators to gradually replace their aircraft with quieter models by the year 2008.

Park Superintendent Robert Arnberger praised Papillon and AirStar for their leadership, foresight, and willingness to purchase quiet technology aircraft. "They have demonstrated their commitment to helping us achieve the balance between aircraft overflights and protection of sensitive park resources we have been seeking for so long," Arnberger said."

"http://www.boeing.com/news/releases/1997/news_release_971210n.html"

Youtube - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FlZLdMz0XyI

 

[kEiThZ]

No tail rotor helicopters (NOTARs) are quieter than conventional helicopters. However, the bulk of a helicopter's noise comes from the main rotor not the tail rotor (which does not even come close to the high subsonic tip speeds of the main rotor). Therefore, even without the tail rotor there's no way a helicopter would be quieter than an airplane of similar weight.

There's also been issues with scaling up NOTAR technology to higher weight classes. That's why there's no 10 ton helicopters without tail rotors. So it'd be a long time till this technology becomes standard across the board. For small applications though, like police surveillance or traffic observation, I'd agree that these are appropriate...but don't expect them to be quieter than a Cessna.

 

[dt_toronto_geek]

On Saturday night around 12:30am a helicopter took off from St. Mike's, headed north, circled in behind my building somewhere (I'd say around Bloor Street based on the time it took to come back) flew down above about Parliament Street, continued down to the lake where I could see it was coming down, presumably approaching the Island Airport over Wards/Centre Island and then disappeared behind the buildings. It never reappeared on the other side which is why i presume it landed at Toronto Island Airport. I was sitting outside with a friend until about 1:30-2am & I didn't see it come back.
None of this bothers me, I'm not complaining about it - I wouldn't notice it if I wasn't sitting outside, just pointing out that this is another example of a flight at night that didn't appear to be an emergency flight but likely a training exercise.

 

[kEiThZ]

^ It could simply be that after they finished dropping off a patient that they headed back to the Island for some reason (maintenance maybe?). Other than that if it was training, like I've pointed out before it's necessary. I can stress this enough to those who don't know much about aviation. It's tough to fly into a city at night. It's tough enough to find landmarks in the daytime. At night or in adverse weather (or both) it's even worse. Air crew need to take the time to train to find their usual destination and practice their regular approaches. The last thing you want is a pilot with a patient onboard trying to find the hospital in the dark.

Glad it didn't bother you though. Wish more people were that understanding.

 

[dt_toronto_geek]

^ It could simply be that after they finished dropping off a patient that they headed back to the Island for some reason (maintenance maybe?). Other than that if it was training, like I've pointed out before it's necessary. I can stress this enough to those who don't know much about aviation. It's tough to fly into a city at night. It's tough enough to find landmarks in the daytime. At night or in adverse weather (or both) it's even worse. Air crew need to take the time to train to find their usual destination and practice their regular approaches. The last thing you want is a pilot with a patient onboard trying to find the hospital in the dark.

Glad it didn't bother you though. Wish more people were that understanding.

I wouldn't argue any of your points for a moment. I only pointed this out because these training or maintenance flights do happen fairly often late at night which some here claim don't. This is on top of emergency flights leaving or arriving St. Mikes which of course are absolutely necessary.

If I wanted or needed a quiet setting I'd choose somewhere else to live. City noise doesn't bother me in the least. Now the Island Airport, that's a whole other matter but we've already discussed that to death in the appropriate thread

 

[Queue]

If you're still being bothered by nighttime noise, I would highly recommend getting a white noise generator. I have a little one that sits on my night table (made by Homedic) that allows me to choose background noises of various frequencies (e.g. waterfall is a lower pitch than rainfall). Most of the sounds just sound like monotonous static; I don't care for the ones that sound like crashing waves, crickets or a babbling brook, though they might have their uses for relaxation rather than trying to sleep.

I've been using this machine since the mid '90s and please believe me that it is a sanity saver. My current location has a lot of traffic noise, and I sleep like a baby with my machine set to the "white noise" setting. My previous location was a basement apartment with an early riser above me who had two dogs that woke up full of energy and scampered all over the hardwood floors. Without my little Sound Spa, I'd have gone bonkers living there. It really allows you to take control of your own environment instead of trying to change things outside your home (which is nearly always an exercise in frustration and futility).

The reason these work so well and don't keep you awake is that your brain tunes out the sound, but it effectively creates a wall of sound through which outside noises can't penetrate.

 

[urbanboom]

\ well, we went off to Paris last autumn and found it blissfully calm compared to Toronto. T

About Paris...

A) for a city of its size and stature, it has a shockingly boring nightlife. The streets are pretty dead at night compared to Toronto. Things stay pretty quiet, except for...

B) I found sleeping in Paris a lot harder than here. I don't know how many people know of those european ambulances... but they are just awful. I've never been woken up by helicopters, but those ambulances that have the piercing two-tone drone that echos throughout the city almost made an insomniac of me. I took a lot of getting used to.