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Fords Working to Fire Webster, Stintz, Scrap Streetcars: Star

MetroMan said:
This is going to hit the boiling point if Ford just as hints at ripping up streetcar tracks. He's going to need all the cops he can hire. The G20 will look like just the opening act for the kind of protests Toronto will see.

We all knew how bad Ford would be for Toronto, but I thought that at least council would temper the man's incredibly ignorant and bull headed threats to Toronto. I was wrong.
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You're kidding right? I guarantee there won't be any protests except from a select few ppl who follow transit issues in the city. I think people have better things to do than protest the removal of streetcar tracks, and the general public doesn't really care all that much about the streetcar as long as there is a means to get from point a to point b still retained.
 
BMO said:
You're kidding right? I guarantee there won't be any protests except from a select few ppl who follow transit issues in the city. I think people have better things to do than protest the removal of streetcar tracks, and the general public doesn't really care all that much about the streetcar as long as there is a means to get from point a to point b still retained.
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People notice a service decline much more than they notice a service boost. Placing an order for more buses would likely take at least a year for them to get here and in service, in that time we could see a hell of a lot of decline on those streetcar routes. The difference in per vehicle capacity alone would force the required frequency well up just to maintain the current level of service.
 
MetroMan said:
This is going to hit the boiling point if Ford just as hints at ripping up streetcar tracks. He's going to need all the cops he can hire. The G20 will look like just the opening act for the kind of protests Toronto will see.

We all knew how bad Ford would be for Toronto, but I thought that at least council would temper the man's incredibly ignorant and bull headed threats to Toronto. I was wrong.
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I think you over estimate the public's appetite for unrest. Until it affects them personally, people have a tremendous ability to ignore bad news.

TJ O'Pootertoot said:
You guys are focusing on the streetcars but I think it was the idea of Case Ootes taking over TTC that was most scary in that article for me.

Here's an idea - what about someone with a transit background as opposed to a cost-cutting background?
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I don't think Ootes would be too bad, he at least saw the reality of things at TCHC. He recommended selling the minimum to increase other opportunities for housing. While he doesn't have a transit background, he's one of those fellows that will listen to those that do. As a result, I don't think he'll get called on again. Mayor Ford hasn't done too good a job of finding yes men.
 
gweed123 said:
People notice a service decline much more than they notice a service boost. Placing an order for more buses would likely take at least a year for them to get here and in service, in that time we could see a hell of a lot of decline on those streetcar routes. The difference in per vehicle capacity alone would force the required frequency well up just to maintain the current level of service.
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Yes, but people aren't going to be protesting worse than the G20 for this, if at all...that's the point I was trying to make.
 
Let's see:
-On the spur of the moment, replace a long-time leader who has real expertise, because he doesn't fit your foolish personal agenda? Check.
-Replace him with a buddy who has no expertise in said area to fill the appointment: Check.
-Threaten other councillors to put up and shut up, showing them no-one is indispensible, even if they are one of the main highly trained specialists qualified to work on the city's central nervous system. Check.
-Risk all this atop the city's transit system: central, incalculably important, and highly complicated. Any upset of this system could be catastrophic for the city in multiple ways: from it's livability to it's morale. Check.

-Muse about destroying huge swaths of the existing system infrastructure. Check.
-Fantasize about how imaginary gains from such an expensive, disruptive and fractious exercise (lawsuits, protests, labour costs, infrastructure costs, cancelled contracts,citywide inconvenience, government reticence) somehow will translate into a windfall. Check.
 
Has anyone considered that maybe there's something....uh, wrong with the Mayor? I mean, not just like "oh, bad idea!" wrong, or "inexperienced and generally spoilt" wrong. Or, "He's some kind of extreme conservative-tea person" wrong.

I mean....wrong. As my ninety year old neighbour would say, "That one's not right in the head."
That he could be, quite literally, mad. Off. Bats. Bonkers. Sick.
Why not? It's happened before in politics the world over. Toronto wouldn't be the first person to elect a sociopath, or psychopath, and rue the day.
The way this guy is acting creeps me out, and seems to me less the work of a committed public servant than a disturbed, bizarrely vituperative crackpot.
 
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CanadianNational said:
Has anyone considered that maybe there's something....uh, wrong with the Mayor? I mean, not just like "oh, bad idea!" wrong, or "inexperienced and generally spoilt" wrong. Or, "He's some kind of extreme conservative-tea person" wrong.

I mean....wrong. As my ninety year old neighbour would say, "That one's not right in the head."
That he could be, quite literally, mad. Off. Bats. Bonkers. Sick.
Why not? It's happened before in politics the world over. Toronto wouldn't be the first person to elect a sociopath, or psychopath, and rue the day.
The way this guy is acting creeps me out, and seems to me less the work of a committed public servant than a disturbed, bizarrely vituperative crackpot.
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Welcome to contemporary conservatism. Brought to you by News Corp and Quebecor.
 
he's not psychologically disturbed, he's just got his own agenda that he will stick to regardless of what gets in his way.

I think he gets a little too caught up in the monetary and fiscal aspect of running a city, and doesn't pay nearly enough attention to the social and quality of life ramifications of his actions.
 
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he's not psychologically disturbed, he's just got his own agenda that he will stick to regardless of what gets in his way.
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^ But that's exactly what I'm talking about.

Put aside the fact that his 'plan' (if one can use such a word for something so reductive) seems to be about crassly injuring the city no matter what.

It's also about his inability to reason, speak, learn, consider and be considerate. His peculiar phobia of crowds and things unscheduled. His reclusiveness, his repetitive pellet speeches, his furies, antisocial behaviour, inflexibility, unreasonableness and destructive bent all paint a portrait of a man who is not just "a guy on a mission".
I'm worried he has some problem with basic cognitive and behavioural traits above and beyond someone who fixates on something to avoid chaos elsewhere.
 
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^ I am leaving all of that alone because I think Ford's behaviour speaks for itself.

What is bugging me more than anything else is his desire to cater to the car crowd when we have to turn in the other direction. I live downtown and everyday I see traffic jams due to single-occupied cars and vans. How sustainable is that? No one in their right mind wants to perpetuate this kind of crap.

Just an aside, when and if streetcars are replaced by buses (and this could happen) the automobile drivers will still be required to yield for all public transit vehicles. It's the law. Choke on that, Ford.
 
BMO said:
... the general public doesn't really care all that much about the streetcar as long as there is a means to get from point a to point b still retained.
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You'd be surprised. Not as bad as the G20, obviously (as most of the hooligans there weren't even from Toronto! Lol.) But, the streetcar is part of Toronto. It's iconic and part of the feel and vibe (good and bad) of Toronto. There will be an outcry from not just a few, but from many. Of course, the Fordiots will put it up to a vote and the suburbanites will applaud its removal as they drive through downtown, anyway.
 
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He's not really anti-social, per se. I think you have to give the guy a modicum of credit for actually returning all those one-on-one phone calls. There is a certain peculiar reclusiveness, I have to agree. He basically avoids the media (literally refusing to even talk to the Star) and sends Doug and/or Mammoliti out to explain things.

This might all seem unsubstantiated if it weren't the country's two biggest newspapers going with it. Buried within his transit machinations is likely the odd good idea or two but it's all so top-down and ill-informed it's mostly like the broken clock being right twice a day.

Few people on this board are going to stand up and say the TTC is just peachy but Ford just seems to be going off in all directions at once with no real plan. I have no idea if he really believes the Shep subway will get built, for example, but no one else does, including the province that let him hang himself with it.

So, I don't think he has many more psychological issues than anyone else but I do think some of those issues don't lend themselves so much to being a mayor, who one hopes will be offer some combo of relatability/intelligence/leadership/encouragement instead of just occasional, single-issue stump speeches. Heck, even Mike Harris's slash-and-burn had a cruel intelligence behind it. This stuff just seems like someone gave a samurai sword and a blowtorch to a toddler half the time...
 
DTowner said:
and the suburbanites will applaud its removal as they drive through downtown, anyway.
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Nope. I took the streetcar last night to get to the Open Roof Festival (I'm from Woodbridge). I'd help Toronto fight tooth and nail to save them. Just let me know when and where. :D
 
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