Finch West Line 6 LRT

[reaperexpress]

If I am understanding things correctly, the TTC can't due to the contract with Mosaic Transit. It seems that any change like speed or implementation of TSP has to be amended into the contract, although the Province seems to be disputing this. Regardless if anything this shows a serious flaw in the idea of a P3 since if this is the case then that means the Crosstown and even worse the Ontario Line are at risk of having there services hamstrung but contractual nonsense. If every change to one of these services requires amendments to contracts with the private partner then imo there is zero benefit to using P3's since now its issues can extend beyond just the construction of a line but its very operations after opening day.

I'm pretty sure they were misrepresenting the contract. My understanding from their repetition of many similar excuses during the TTC board meeting today was that any changes to the schedule, or any changes to operating characteristics (e.g. operating much faster and potentially increasing wear and tear on the vehicles) needs to be amended in the contract. They explicitly said that the City has unilateral authority to make signal timing changes, so they do not need any approval from Mx or Mosaic (though they are insisting on getting approval anyway, possibly as an excuse to let the political pressure die down). The only thing is that if they upgrade the TSP but don't change the schedule, the line can't run faster than 46 minutes.

That said, they do already plan to update the schedule in April, so that's not necessarily an issue. They haven't written the new schedule yet and Laurence Lui (TTC Service Planning) said they will be observing operations to determine run times.

 

[reaperexpress]

I was talking about on the TTC map on the line 1 trains. For example line 4 and line 2 light up briefly when reaching interchange stations, do finch and eglinton lines not have lights on the map?

No they don't have lights because the lines weren't under construction yet in the early 2000s when the trains were built.

 

[Steve X]

So sick and tired of the TTC's "nanny" like behaviour towards it's riders and the people of Toronto. I even heard Jamal Myers mention during his recent press conference that "Vision Zero" was being applied to streetcars and LRTs. Really???

Meanwhile in Manchester the TfGM actually treats people like adults and operates normally with the expectation that some nutcase won't jump in front of a moving tram. And if they do, it's their own damn fault.

I dare not show this video to one of the TTC board members. They'll probably have a heart attack. I was definitely having some mild culture shock. I was constantly wondering why people were risking standing so close to a moving tram.

What's worse is the judges will side with the dumbasses doing illegal things citing ttc being "professionals" should take more duty of care. Which is why doors close slower now. Buses accelerate slower now.

All of this crap to keep potential Darwin Award winners alive and continue to pass on their genes to create a bigger pool of idiots.

 

[abovegrade]

What he's saying is, there are no lights for Line 6 & 5 on those maps.

Got it, thanks.

 

[abovegrade]

No they don't have lights because the lines weren't under construction yet in the early 2000s when the trains were built.

Yeah but they added new ones in when the extension to Vaughan went in so I figured they'd do the same with eglinton and finch

 

[reaperexpress]

Yeah but they added new ones in when the extension to Vaughan went in so I figured they'd do the same with eglinton and finch

No they didn't, the trains came with those.

 

[abovegrade]

No they didn't, the trains came with those.

either you're being sarcastic, or I am really confused. Heck, doesn't matter.

 

[reaperexpress]

either you're being sarcastic, or I am really confused. Heck, doesn't matter.

If I recall correctly the trains came with those lights already installed because the extension was already approved when the trains were delivered.

 

[Steve X]

If I recall correctly the trains came with those lights already installed because the extension was already approved when the trains were delivered.

It indeed came installed and never reconfigured. Those TYSSE leds were simply covered up on the pre-TYSSE maps and never turned on so no one would know they were there unless told.

 

[Midtown Urbanist]

Just convert it to BRT and run articulated buses on the finch tracks instead of LRV vehicles, so that way they dont need to follow the BS streetcar rules such as needing to slow down at intersections. The buses can also accelerate faster than the LRVs. These changes will make the line go faster compared to now. 3 billion dollars for a BRT line sounds expensive but the TTC can probably recoup some of the cost by selling all their Citradis Spirits cheaply back to alstom and then buy some buses to run the BRT. Lets make lemonade and be done with this.

Line 10 will use the same vehicles, they could be repurposed for Hurontario.

 

[urbanclient]

Been sitting on this info for a bit:

As some of you may know, the T9 tram in Île-de-France (Paris metropolis) is 10.3 km with 19 stops. It is also virtually identical to Line 6 right down to the Alstom Citadis trains and the subway connection at one end.

Preparatory & utility works started in 2016 for both T9 and Line 6. Major construction for T9 started late 2017. For Line 6, major construction started 2 years later in late 2019. Overall, T9 was completed in 5 years from 2016 to April 2021. Mind bogglingly, Line 6 was completed 4 years later in December 2025.

T9 cost €480 million or ~$670-780 million CAD, up from a 2015 cost estimate of €430 million. So far, Metrolinx has incurred $2.5 billion CAD on Line 6 and it runs at nearly half the average speed as T9. And it's not like this T9 tram is cheap because it's in the distant suburbs; one terminus is in tiny, 105 square kilometre Paris city proper. Specifically, Porte de Choisy station is in the XIIIe arrondissement with a population density of 24,900/km^2. In contrast, Line 6 is about 20 km northwest of downtown as the crow flies, and 15 km north of High Park. Metrolinx also has taxpayers paying another $1.2 billion in the contract that includes 30 years of "long-term P3 financing, lifecycle, operating and maintenance costs over concession term".

We genuinely paid over 3 times the price for an inferior tram, for a smaller city, in a farther suburb, completed 4 years slower, and with one less stop (18). And to top it all off, we are hamstrung by a super expensive 30 year contract that puts maintenance costs at over $20 million a year for 10 km of track. Tell me that's not corruption in the Canadian form.

Quote and Mx costs: https://assets.metrolinx.com/image/upload/v1763754630/Documents/Metrolinx/Item_13.5_-_Capital_Projects_-_Rapid_Transit_-_FINAL_ENG_Mx.pdf

 

[jordanmkasla2009]

They haven't reviewed ION? I'm sorry but how is that possible? Kitchener-Waterloo is in driving and public transit distance. It doesn't require a passport or flights to reach. And they haven't reviewed it yet? Are you effing kidding me? Ion opened in 2019 (yes I had to look it up) and TTC staff couldn't be bothered to review it in the 6 years since it opened? Even knowing we were opening the Eglinton and Finch LRTs? I'm sorry but that is sheer incompetence.

as I wrote here:

ION doesn't have the aggressive form of transit priority that is being considered here. There are still instances where the trains wait for left-turning vehicles but they do modify cycle times quite a bit more aggressively than in Toronto.

What they are moving towards goes even beyond what KW is doing.