Finch West Line 6 LRT

[nfitz]

Yet new legislation under the Ford government disallows Toronto planning any transit.

That's not true. Read what the legislation (Bill 107) says:

The City of Toronto and its agencies shall not design, develop, construct or work on, or cause design, development, construction or work on,

(a) a rapid transit project that is the sole responsibility of the Corporation; or

(b) a rapid transit project that is substantially similar and in close proximity to a rapid transit project that is the sole responsibility of the Corporation.

First of all, it doesn't restrict planning, in itself.

Second of all, it only applies to planned Metrolinx lines. As Metrolinx has zero plans to building anything on Sheppard, east of McCowan, there is nothing restricting the city from doing this.

 

[micheal_can]

The (2019?) agreement between the city and the province put the city in the driver's seat for the Crosstown East extension further into Scarborough.

In 2020, the city expanded the scope, to include a segment on Sheppard East to McCowan and the new Line 2(and eventually Line 4) station.

View attachment 370013

So, we are going to have 3 different systems along one route? So, revisiting the silliness of the SRT? 40 years later they will "fix" the problem they created.

 

[W. K. Lis]

So, we are going to have 3 different systems along one route? So, revisiting the silliness of the SRT? 40 years later they will "fix" the problem they created.

Same problem with St. Clair Avenue West. The 512 ST. CLAIR streetcar could be extended to Jane Street and Scarlett Road, but the auto-addicted politicians can't have that happen. Streetcars cannot replace the buses on St. Clair Avenue West for them.

 

[micheal_can]

Same problem with St. Clair Avenue West. The 512 ST. CLAIR streetcar could be extended to Jane Street and Scarlett Road, but the auto-addicted politicians can't have that happen. Streetcars cannot replace the buses on St. Clair Avenue West for them.

But they aren't building a separate service, are they? Yes, you need to switch to a bus, but that is not building any infrastructure. The Sheppard Ave will have infrastructure for 3 different services. I'd say get rid of the EELRT between Brimley Rd and Nelson Rd, and have the subway extended to Nelson Rd. The Crosstown being extended up is the only thing making sense on the plan.

 

[ARG1]

LRT vs express bus is an interesting comparison, and the outcome should depend on the time of day. During the peak hours, the roads are congested, then the LRT should be winning because the express buses are stuck in traffic while the LRT uses its own lanes.

Late evenings, there is no congestion and the express bus may be winning if it has fewer stops than the LRT.

But LRT vs regular bus? LRT should never lose, it has fewer stops than the regular bus, and the benefit of dedicated lanes. LRT should be equal or slightly faster than a regular bus off-peak, and much faster during the peak.

If LRT is slower than the regular bus, it means someone totally messed up the LRT operation.

Something to note, there is a video on Transmania Ontario's channel where he compares the speed of the Sheppard Line and the Night Bus from Sheppard-Yonge to Don Mills. The result was: approximately a tie. This didn't include the time it took to get from the platform to the surface, just from station to station. This is a fully grade separated subway with stations every 1-2km. Now imagine if it was a surface LRT with stops every 700m. Granted this is the night bus at around 12, but I think even at late hours like 9 the LRT might begin to struggle against even local bus routes.

 

[ARG1]

Yet new legislation under the Ford government disallows Toronto planning any transit.

... alongside the currently planned lines and extensions. Building your own rapid transit on top of the SSE is a big no no, but building an extension of Eglinton east or a new rapid transit line along say Jane? No problem at all.

 

[nfitz]

[/QUOTE]

So, we are going to have 3 different systems along one route? So, revisiting the silliness of the SRT? 40 years later they will "fix" the problem they created.

Along Sheppard? LRT from Meadowvale to Sheppard East station (McCowan) and subway from their to Yonge. I guess if you want to get to Downsview, you'd switch to a bus.

Surely having the LRT in addition to the subway, is better than just buses. Probably should discuss this in a thread like https://urbantoronto.ca/forum/threads/metrolinx-sheppard-east-lrt-in-design.11784 or one of the myriad of Sheppard Subway threads.

 

[micheal_can]

Along Sheppard? LRT from Meadowvale to Sheppard East station (McCowan) and subway from their to Yonge. I guess if you want to get to Downsview, you'd switch to a bus.

Surely having the LRT in addition to the subway, is better than just buses. Probably should discuss this in a thread like https://urbantoronto.ca/forum/threads/metrolinx-sheppard-east-lrt-in-design.11784 or one of the myriad of Sheppard Subway threads.

We diverged to it, and I am merely stating my simple thoughts. Imagine building the Finch East from Finch station as a LRT, and then the centre part as a subway. That is forcing unnecessary transfers. That is my argument for everywhere. Don't do like the SRT.

 

[nfitz]

We diverged to it, and I am merely stating my simple thoughts. Imagine building the Finch East from Finch station as a LRT, and then the centre part as a subway. That is forcing unnecessary transfers. That is my argument for everywhere. Don't do like the SRT.

There always has to be an end of the line somewhere (unless we loop everything). Sooner or later you have to transfer to something else.

On Finch once you get to Highway 27 you still need to transfer to a bus. So, we shouldn't build Finch then?

 

[KhalilHeron]

I can't speak to Finch, but that is absolutely not the case on the surface section of Eglinton.

Dan

With future intensification, it could be though. It is certainly the case east of Kennedy.

 

[micheal_can]

There always has to be an end of the line somewhere (unless we loop everything). Sooner or later you have to transfer to something else.

On Finch once you get to Highway 27 you still need to transfer to a bus. So, we shouldn't build Finch then?

No. If we are building RT, whether it is a subway, LRT, or streetcar, the line should not just end and then a forced transfer onto another type of RT. Transferring to a bus makes sense until demand is there. We do not need to reinvent the wheel on each new project.

 

[W. K. Lis]

No. If we are building RT, whether it is a subway, LRT, or streetcar, the line should not just end and then a forced transfer onto another type of RT. Transferring to a bus makes sense until demand is there. We do not need to reinvent the wheel on each new project.

We are "reinventing", replacing Line 3 (Scarborough RT) with the Line 2 extension (heavy rail).

 

[micheal_can]

We are "reinventing", replacing Line 3 (Scarborough RT) with the Line 2 extension (heavy rail).

No, you are fixing a forced, unnecessary transfer.

 

[nfitz]

No. If we are building RT, whether it is a subway, LRT, or streetcar, the line should not just end and then a forced transfer onto another type of RT. Transferring to a bus makes sense until demand is there. We do not need to reinvent the wheel on each new project.

Do you think we'll ever need full subway out to Meadowvale ... or Pickering?

Why force people to stay on bus? Heck, A lot of the people on the LRT portion of Sheppard end up heading the other way towards UTS. And I'd think at Sheppard East, there's be more changing to Line 2 than Line 4.

Ideally though, if the government keeps it's promise to extend Line 4 to McCowan, that they change the technology along the entire line, to a vehicle and power system that can on the surface - certainly on the eastern part of the line, to avoid that transfer.

Though I'm struggling to see how transfer for a minority from LRT to Line 4 is bad, while ignoring that for the majority transferring to Line 2 is good.

 

[Rainforest]

So, we are going to have 3 different systems along one route? So, revisiting the silliness of the SRT? 40 years later they will "fix" the problem they created.

For a trip along Sheppard East, it shouldn't be subway then LRT then bus. I expect that the LRT will start from McCowan and go to Malvern Centre. The buses will start at McCowan too, run alongside LRT to Neilson, and then continue further east. One branch to Port Union, the other branch to the Zoo.

In that case, LRT doesn't need many stops on Sheppard. Maybe, it should only stop at Markham Rd and at Neilson, letting the buses serve smaller intersections.