Finch Avenue West: Opportunities for Improved Bus Service

[Rainforest]

You could build both the curbside or in-median BRT and the Finch Hydro corridor BRT for the same cost of building the Finch LRT. You would get more capacity, and you would essentially have an express/collector route operating in the same general area. Those who are in it for the long haul would either walk up to the hydro corridor, or transfer onto it at one of the N-S concessions (since that's likely where the only stops would be). Those who want local transit can stay on Finch. In fact, you could probably even do the Finch lanes as curbside HOV lanes, and you would get nearly the same efficiency (since a significant number of riders would use the Hydro Corridor route instead, reducing frequencies on Finch and reducing bunching).

The Hydro Corridor BRT route could be touted as a transit project, and the HOV lanes as a road widening project. In the end though, transit wins in both cases. Nobody really loses, because it becomes an "either or" choice. And yes, this whole scheme likely could be built over the same distance as the FWLRT for about the same cost, considering that I have referenced several times that BRT projects come in at around 1/3 to 1/2 the capital cost of LRT projects.

PS: I think the HOV lanes on Finch would be more attractive for Fordites than bus lanes, because with HOV, it is technically increasing road space for cars.

This is an interesting view. However, one disadvantage of running two parallel services is higher operating costs. Off-peak, the frequency of most routes is determined not by the vehicle capacity but by the need to provide a reasonably frequent service, even if the vehicles are far from being full. To run two closely-spaced parallel lines at a decent frequency off-peak, more vehicles will be needed.

 

[M II A II R II K]

Unless the hydro corridor was used by GO Transit instead for more regional transit services and the TTC not having to pay for those costs.

 

[gweed123]

This is an interesting view. However, one disadvantage of running two parallel services is higher operating costs. Off-peak, the frequency of most routes is determined not by the vehicle capacity but by the need to provide a reasonably frequent service, even if the vehicles are far from being full. To run two closely-spaced parallel lines at a decent frequency off-peak, more vehicles will be needed.

But even the off-peak frequency on Finch West between 10pm and 12am on weekdays is every 6-7 minutes. Even if that were cut in half (ie every 2nd bus used the busway instead of Finch proper), the frequency would still be ~13 minutes. For most buses in the city, that's still pretty damn good.

I can understand your worries about the increase in operating cost due to parallel services, but when the frequency is high enough, it can be split onto the parallel route with little to no increase in the number of buses being used on the route.

And like Mark said, chances are that the TTC will not be the only service using the Finch West BRT route, so realistically the TTC can cut their off-peak frequency even further on that route, because GO or VIVA can fill in the gaps (although I don't think that's a good idea).

EDIT: Even during peak, the increase in operating costs can be reduced by:

a) Running artics on one or both of the routes
b) Because the routes run faster, you can use fewer buses and still carry the same number of people

 

[doady]

If Finch is upgraded to BRT, there's a real danger of people walking to and from Westwood Mall terminal to use the BRT service, since the Finch buses stop right at the border, and putting strain on the BRT service. I don't think the City of Toronto can afford to subsidize 905 riders like that, or subsidize residents along Finch working in the 905 and encouraging job losses to the 905. When Finch is upgraded to BRT, they should strongly consider truncating the route west of Humber College to preserve the integrity of the TTC and the Finch bus route, and prevent transfers with Mississauga Transit and Brampton Transit.

 

[gweed123]

If Finch is upgraded to BRT, there's a real danger of people walking to and from Westwood Mall terminal to use the BRT service, since the Finch buses stop right at the border, and putting strain on the BRT service. I don't think the City of Toronto can afford to subsidize 905 riders like that, or subsidize residents along Finch working in the 905 and encouraging job losses to the 905. When Finch is upgraded to BRT, they should strongly consider truncating the route west of Humber College to preserve the integrity of the TTC and the Finch bus route, and prevent transfers with Mississauga Transit and Brampton Transit.

Umm... what??? So let me get this straight: Toronto should cut the BRT line short in order to avoid people from other municipalities from transferring onto it and paying to use it? Uh huh...

 

[Justin10000]

Westwood is not within walking distance to Finch Ave. Not by a long shot.

 

[Electrify]

Is there even that much long haul demand on this route? The TTC report seems to suggest that the vast majority of riders on the Finch West bus are going to and coming from locations on Finch itself.

Also Humber College is clearly one of the most important destinations on the route and a Hydro BRT wouldn't come anywhere close to it.

Interesting map. If accurate, it begs another question: How come so many along Finch, which runs through several communities with a high percentage of people who are transit dependent, do not use transit to reach other parts of the city - especially downtown? Could it be if transit was faster those along the Finch corridor would be more likely to use it to access opportunities across Toronto, rather than keeping their journeys exclusively along Finch or buying a car they cannot afford to meet their transportation needs?

 

[Justin10000]

That makes no sense whatsoever. It's not hard to understand there is strong local demand along Finch, and it has nothing to do with speed.

 

[reaperexpress]

If Finch is upgraded to BRT, there's a real danger of people walking to and from Westwood Mall terminal to use the BRT service, since the Finch buses stop right at the border, and putting strain on the BRT service. I don't think the City of Toronto can afford to subsidize 905 riders like that, or subsidize residents along Finch working in the 905 and encouraging job losses to the 905. When Finch is upgraded to BRT, they should strongly consider truncating the route west of Humber College to preserve the integrity of the TTC and the Finch bus route, and prevent transfers with Mississauga Transit and Brampton Transit.

Prevent transfers and turn away riders? This Toronto supremacy does not make any sense. Toronto subsidizes the 905 in terms of transport no matter what it does. If people don't take the TTC in Toronto they'll drive in Toronto. At least they're paying the city if they take the TTC.

Turning away riders does not "preserve the integrity" of routes. The 60 Steeles West bus would not be nearly as successful if it weren't for the number Vaughan residents who walk to Steeles to avoid paying a double fare.

 

[aleesia]

If Finch is upgraded to BRT, there's a real danger of people walking to and from Westwood Mall terminal to use the BRT service, since the Finch buses stop right at the border, and putting strain on the BRT service. I don't think the City of Toronto can afford to subsidize 905 riders like that, or subsidize residents along Finch working in the 905 and encouraging job losses to the 905. When Finch is upgraded to BRT, they should strongly consider truncating the route west of Humber College to preserve the integrity of the TTC and the Finch bus route, and prevent transfers with Mississauga Transit and Brampton Transit.

This must be stated sarcastically.

LRT has to end at a significant terminal, whether it be Westwood, Woodbine, or Pearson. It will obviously not end at Humberwood, because there are some people walking over 427 (my GF included) and take the 16 to their destination somewhere in Malton. Also, the 905 will invade within Toronto if the TTC decides to end it somewhere within the city (like Finch and Islington subway stations).

Or maybe the reason why the TTC cannot put more routes in Malton because of the extra fare required west of 427 and the availability of bus bays in Westwood (for 36B, 37A, and possibly a new branch of 96).

And we all already know that the TTC is a "selfish" transit system (as shown in Burnhamthorpe and Bloor) and don't care about the others, while the 905 systems cooperate with each other and accept each other's transfers. For example, in Burnhamthorpe and Bloor, the TTC will be more profitable when handed those routes over to Mississauga and accept each other's transfers. But due to the TTC's selfishness, they just waste money that could be used for more beneficial purposes (such as reassigning them to the busiest routes, etc.)

Mississauga is also doing this thing as well in both Dundas and Hurontario. 101 has been cut recently to the border. Oakville will have to "catch" it. 19 will also be cut to the 407 by September, and Brampton riders will have to "catch" it. The difference is that Oakville and Brampton passengers don't have to pay an extra fare to board these buses.

 

[Thoughtless Miscreant]

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Interesting map. If accurate, it begs another question: How come so many along Finch, which runs through several communities with a high percentage of people who are transit dependent, do not use transit to reach other parts of the city - especially downtown? Could it be if transit was faster those along the Finch corridor would be more likely to use it to access opportunities across Toronto, rather than keeping their journeys exclusively along Finch or buying a car they cannot afford to meet their transportation needs?

This sounds like the same logic that says "if only we extended the Sheppard Subway to STC then all of a sudden enough people would flock to it to justify the expense." It's pure speculation and you could use similar arguments to justify any transit expansion.

Plus I find it hard to believe that people on Finch are eschewing transit in droves when that corridor sees some of the highest ridership in the entire city. The much simpler explanation is that the demand on Finch is for local trips.

 

[Electrify]

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This sounds like the same logic that says "if only we extended the Sheppard Subway to STC then all of a sudden enough people would flock to it to justify the expense." It's pure speculation and you could use similar arguments to justify any transit expansion.

Plus I find it hard to believe that people on Finch are eschewing transit in droves when that corridor sees some of the highest ridership in the entire city. The much simpler explanation is that the demand on Finch is for local trips.

I'll admit it is speculation, but don't you think it is odd that so few riders travel to downtown Toronto or even downtown North York? What about other employment districts relatively close to the corridor such as Lawrence-Keele, Orfus, Consumers, or Steeles Tech? The single largest destination for riders of the 36 bus beyond the scope of the line is the Seneca Newham campus.

Yes, maybe those who use the corridor do not have a need to go downtown. Likewise, they may also feel that transit service is too slow and unreliable to travel beyond the corridor and have opted to drive or simply not travel to other parts of the city. How does this compare to the Sheppard West bus, or even the Yonge St. Viva and local buses?

 

[gweed123]

Yes, maybe those who use the corridor do not have a need to go downtown. Likewise, they may also feel that transit service is too slow and unreliable to travel beyond the corridor and have opted to drive or simply not travel to other parts of the city. How does this compare to the Sheppard West bus, or even the Yonge St. Viva and local buses?

Which is exactly why an improvement to the local bus service on Finch, coupled with a Finch Hydro Corridor BRT, is the best way to grow ridership for both of these trip types.

 

[BoAd]

Given there can't be any real frequency improvements or elimination of many stops in order to create a BRT due to large amount of local traffic, the only real option to deal with the capacity is to put articulated busses on the Finch routes.

 

[Amy Rose]

Which is exactly why an improvement to the local bus service on Finch, coupled with a Finch Hydro Corridor BRT, is the best way to grow ridership for both of these trip types.

Then the thing is that BRT lanes would just be a fancy rush hour only service because who wants to go to Finch station from Jane at 12:30AM with 100% guarantee of no vehicles