If you can't build a system that actually makes transit more efficient, make a system that screws up traffic flow so that making transit looks like a more attractive option. Personally, I would prefer a system that does the former.
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Fate of the SRT
- Thread starter Dan416
- Start date
If you can't build a system that actually makes transit more efficient, make a system that screws up traffic flow so that making transit looks like a more attractive option. Personally, I would prefer a system that does the former.
GraphicMatt
Looking forward to a FRESH START for Toronto
We can spend a lot of money building transit that doesn't have any impact on road traffic or we can spend less money on solutions that might give priority to transit over cars.
(A problem arises, of course, when we build transit that relies on giving priority to transit over cars and then never actually give transit its needed priority. Toronto does this a lot.)
(A problem arises, of course, when we build transit that relies on giving priority to transit over cars and then never actually give transit its needed priority. Toronto does this a lot.)
Second_in_pie
Senior Member
Yep, but the second option would also be significantly faster, more reliable, and have higher capacity than the first.
hbl33
Active Member
+1. And transit priority over cars is ironic, considering private transportation is most important and prevalent in Toronto's traffic. And if Matt's first choice is preferrable, why not get rid of all cars in that street?
Electrify
Senior Member
I voted to extend the subway. The SRT acts as nothing more than an unnecessary transfer to get from south to north Scarborough. If Kennedy were a major destination of some kind, then it could be tolerable. But the fact of the matter is that probably over 90% of passengers getting off the SRT are heading to the subway. Likewise, 90% of those who go from the subway to the SRT will also be transferring to at least one other bus route on their trip.
With that said, I think the best thing to do with the SRT is to convert it to a busway. This could affordably allow various bus routes which serve north Scarborough quick access to the subway, eliminating the transfer.
With that said, I think the best thing to do with the SRT is to convert it to a busway. This could affordably allow various bus routes which serve north Scarborough quick access to the subway, eliminating the transfer.
W. K. Lis
Superstar
I'm guessing you're not using the Ottaws conversion from busway to light rail right-of-way as an example. See Ottawa: New LRT Plan.
Rainforest
Senior Member
Conversion of SRT to a busway was rejected in the Richard Soberman's 2006 study. The peak demand in this corridor is way too big for a busway.
Dan416
Senior Member
I'd like to know how Smitherman proposes to replace the SRT with subway.
EnviroTO
Senior Member
Probably it would happen by closing it down for a while, rebuilding curves and Kennedy station, and putting down the right track and electrical system. Politicians don't make engineering decisions.
Dan416
Senior Member
I wonder how much this would cost versus just extending Danforth (underground) on a different/better alignment, since the SRT alignment wasn't that great anyway.
Rainforest
Senior Member
^ At least, they should study both options. It might be that the Danforth - McCowan alignment will win on both cost and usefulness.
I am thinking now that perhaps Mr. Smitherman's team deliberately published only the SRT alignment at this point, to avoid being hit with criticism like "why are you building new tunnel when a parallel ROW exists already". This would be very visible, whereas little things like the cost of rebuilding Kennedy platforms and the Ellesmere - Midland curve might not capture attention of an average voter.
If so, then there is a chance that they will perform a real study when (and if) Smitherman is elected.
I am thinking now that perhaps Mr. Smitherman's team deliberately published only the SRT alignment at this point, to avoid being hit with criticism like "why are you building new tunnel when a parallel ROW exists already". This would be very visible, whereas little things like the cost of rebuilding Kennedy platforms and the Ellesmere - Midland curve might not capture attention of an average voter.
If so, then there is a chance that they will perform a real study when (and if) Smitherman is elected.
GTS
Active Member
What do they intend to do about the SRT(LRT) stop at Sheppard where it connects with the Sheppard East LRT? I haven't heard anything other then it is to be underground while the Sheppard East LRT will be on the surface. I know the SRT(LRT) is going to have fare paid zones like the present SRT has with attendents at each station but the Sheppard East LRT is going to be Proof Of Payment as the operators responsibility. Will the Sheppard Progress SRT + SELRT have one big fare paid zone for both rapid transit routes or will it be POP for the SELRT and an attendent for the SRT section below grade?
kEiThZ
Superstar
I am not sure about cost. But it will win on usefulness. Lawrence East will be at the hospital. And STC will be closer to McCowan.
It's way simpler than that.
"So what are going to do for Scarborough?"
"Extend the subway."
"Fine. Put it in the map."
Staffer takes out the map and changes the colour of the existing line. Only folks on UT would think that some deep thought went into the alignment. That'll come when they actually get down to building the thing.
And I am hopeful they'll go Danforth-McCowan simply because they won't want to shut down the SRT for years.
Fresh Start
Banned
It'd most definitely cost less to construct a brand new ROW than to retrofit the SRT guideway. Think about it. You'd have to widen the right-of-way, alter trackbeds, fortify the elevated guideway or more likely even have to demolish it, modify all the existing stations, rebuild Kennedy subway station to face NE-SW instead of e-w like today, etc. Instead of preserving the SRT right-of-way, we should donate it to the Uxbridge Subdivision such that bi-directional all-day service along the Stoufville GO Line can commence. Possibly Lawrence East Stn could even live on as a new GO Stn given all the underground infrastructure already in place there.
Given the part of town we're talking about here, I don't see why TBM is absolutely necessary for digging the whole route. Significant lengths of the ROW (like say from Danforth/Eglinton to McCowan/Ellesmere) could be built using the CnC method, saving a lot of money. Assuming $320 million/km for TBM and $270 million/km for CnC, it'd be more than cost-neutral to just build anew and in process open up close subway access for the Bendale, Cedarbare and Guildwood communities en route.
M II A II R II K
Senior Member
Make Scarborough RT line a high priority: council
Jun 10, 2010
DAVID NICKLE
Read More: http://www.insidetoronto.com/news/c...ke-scarboroug-rt-line-a-high-priority-council
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Toronto council has given its approval to plans to rebuild the aging Scarborough RT line using new light rail vehicles, and councillors made it clear they'd like the work done much more quickly than the 2015 start date that the provincial government announced last month. The approval from Toronto gives a green light to proceeding with the Scarborough Rapid Transit line from the city's perspective. But as a part of the re-ordering of Transit City projects after the last provincial budget, Metrolinx has delayed the start of the project until 2015, after the Pan Am Games.
Mayor David Miller, who has been sharply critical of the decision to remove $4 billion of committed funds from Transit City, said the line running from Kennedy subway station to the Scarborough Town Centre and McCowan Road should be more of a priority. "I think we should force the province to put this back in the 2011 budget and ensure this line is redone," he said. "It is essential for the transportation network of Toronto. You can't replace it with buses." Councillors - particularly those from Scarborough - were bitter about the delay. "The premier of this province frankly moved to pull the funds that will have a replacement of the SRT," said Scarborough Centre Councillor Michael Thompson, a long-time supporter of the Scarborough RT plan.
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Jun 10, 2010
DAVID NICKLE
Read More: http://www.insidetoronto.com/news/c...ke-scarboroug-rt-line-a-high-priority-council
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Toronto council has given its approval to plans to rebuild the aging Scarborough RT line using new light rail vehicles, and councillors made it clear they'd like the work done much more quickly than the 2015 start date that the provincial government announced last month. The approval from Toronto gives a green light to proceeding with the Scarborough Rapid Transit line from the city's perspective. But as a part of the re-ordering of Transit City projects after the last provincial budget, Metrolinx has delayed the start of the project until 2015, after the Pan Am Games.
Mayor David Miller, who has been sharply critical of the decision to remove $4 billion of committed funds from Transit City, said the line running from Kennedy subway station to the Scarborough Town Centre and McCowan Road should be more of a priority. "I think we should force the province to put this back in the 2011 budget and ensure this line is redone," he said. "It is essential for the transportation network of Toronto. You can't replace it with buses." Councillors - particularly those from Scarborough - were bitter about the delay. "The premier of this province frankly moved to pull the funds that will have a replacement of the SRT," said Scarborough Centre Councillor Michael Thompson, a long-time supporter of the Scarborough RT plan.
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