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Family Sized Condos

interested said:
Ka,
I believe this is not acheiving what Adam Vaughn is seeking for family condos in the core at prices which people can afford.

this is NYC where the uber wealthy or people with inflated incomes are looking to buy at $3 million with $3000/month condo fees and nannies and private schools??

I don't believe that except for a limited group of wealthy higher eschalon bankers, lawyers, and perhaps CA partners of major firms, entrepreneurs, this provides for family size apartments/condos in the core.
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It is the trend that is relevant.

Once families with money move into the 'core' downtown, then facilities-- day care etc.-- will follow. That, as Johnzz has correctly stated, will encourage more and more familities to move into the city -- perhaps, not in the 'core, but at the edges of 'core'.

About 10 years ago, you could not find a grocery stores in the downtown area. Now, they are popping up everywhere. Canadian Tire is in the middle of the'core' -- at Bay and Dundas. Home Depot tried, twice, to move into the 'core'.

As regards moving into the downtown area after having lived in suburbs for 30 years, it is a matter of personal preference. I moved into 'core' downtown from 'inner suburbs. And I love it.
 
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there are many family sized condos in downtown TO; however, the majority of them are not new construction.
most are from the last boom during the 1980s, range in size from 1200-1500 SF and cost around $350-400 PSF.

hell, there are even several 2,000+sf units in the SLM and Financial district areaa from $500-700K
 
KA1 said:
It is the trend that is relevant.



As regards moving into the downtown area after having lived in suburbs for 30 years, it is a matter of personal preference. I moved into 'core' downtown from 'inner suburbs. And I love it.
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If I was going to end up living on the "top of the world" as you will be in 3 years, maybe I too would love it. I just find I like the more relaxed pace in the burbs, the somewhat cleaner air. i certainly respect your comment that it is a matter of personal preference. My comment was simply that of the people I know, most as they get older tend to prefer less hustle and bustle, though this is clearly by no means universal, as you correctly point out.
 
interested said:
If I was going to end up living on the "top of the world" as you will be in 3 years, maybe I too would love it. I just find I like the more relaxed pace in the burbs, the somewhat cleaner air. i certainly respect your comment that it is a matter of personal preference. My comment was simply that of the people I know, most as they get older tend to prefer less hustle and bustle, though this is clearly by no means universal, as you correctly point out.
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Come rain, snow or sunshine, I go to Metro at College Park for newspapers, grocery shopping and, more important, lottery tickets using indoor passage from my building -- without having to dress up for the weather. I will be doing the same thing from AURA. Canadian Tire store is just down the road. Eaton Centre is renovating its food court. In Summer, I quite often walk to Dundas Square in the evenings to enjoy entertainment there. It is faster to walk to Toronto Hospital than to wait for an ambulance. This is less hustle and bustle. This IS the relaxed pace. This is NIRVANA. You have to experience it to appreiate it.

As any medical professional will tell you, there is a BIG difference between being old and feeling old.

By the way, if you also wish to experience life on the 'top of the world', penthouse apartment at AURA is still available for sale. It is going cheap. Only $ 17.5 millions. And that is in Canadian funds.
 
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KA1 said:
.

By the way, if you also wish to experience life on the 'top of the world', penthouse apartment at AURA is still available for sale. It is going cheap. Only $ 17.5 millions. And that is in Canadian funds.
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I am so glad you told me, I will rush out and buy it first thing tomorrow.

Actually, on 2nd thought I think I might prefer the $30 million penthouse at the 4 Seasons. Maybe I will just buy them both and split my time from location A to location B.
 
interested said:
Actually, on 2nd thought I think I might prefer the $30 million penthouse at the 4 Seasons. Maybe I will just buy them both and split my time from location A to location B.
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....with 'babes' in both arms instead of canes and bagpipers in the front?
 
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interested said:
If I was going to end up living on the "top of the world" as you will be in 3 years, maybe I too would love it. I just find I like the more relaxed pace in the burbs, the somewhat cleaner air. i certainly respect your comment that it is a matter of personal preference. My comment was simply that of the people I know, most as they get older tend to prefer less hustle and bustle, though this is clearly by no means universal, as you correctly point out.
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Not the people I know and associate with.
After renting a townhouse in the burbs for a couple of years while waiting for our downtown condo to be completed, I can tell you for us, it was awful. Our townhouse development was mostly populated by seniors, and it was quiet and peaceful alright. You could hear the grass grow. It was hell.
This was truly God's waiting room. Interesting people find each other and boring people find each other. The latter was certainly the case here. The biggest topics of conversation ran along the lines of when the mail would arrive, who was going to Florida, when was the grass going to get cut, and wether this was blue box week or not.
Going gocery shopping, or to the doctor was a always a big planned (and stressful) preoccupation for these poor souls. I could not believe these people wre similar in age to us.
We are downtown now and we absolutely love it. I feel sorry for the folks we left behind. Here we LIVE. There we existed, counting down the days to our escape.
 
Granny said:
Not the people I know and associate with.
After renting a townhouse in the burbs for a couple of years while waiting for our downtown condo to be completed, I can tell you for us, it was awful. Our townhouse development was mostly populated by seniors, and it was quiet and peaceful alright. You could hear the grass grow. It was hell.
This was truly God's waiting room. Interesting people find each other and boring people find each other. The latter was certainly the case here. The biggest topics of conversation ran along the lines of when the mail would arrive, who was going to Florida, when was the grass going to get cut, and wether this was blue box week or not.
Going gocery shopping, or to the doctor was a always a big planned (and stressful) preoccupation for these poor souls. I could not believe these people wre similar in age to us.
We are downtown now and we absolutely love it. I feel sorry for the folks we left behind. Here we LIVE. There we existed, counting down the days to our escape.
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Oh Granny...you Rock!
 
KA1 said:
That's the difference between getting old and feeling old. Tell that to 'Interested".
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I understand Granny's view. I in fact go out, play tennis, go into town to the theatre, roy thomson and occasional sporting event. I cut the grass which I enjoy. I read. I used to play bridge and will probably restart. We travel.

Granny and you are clearly in the camp that enjoys the city. I think that is great. However, just because i am getting older doesn't mean I feel old (except at the end of a ladder's tennis match after i played a 37 year old!). My problem is my mind thinks I am 18 but my body feels more like 81 (at least after an hour of singles tennis).
I do agree the City offers alot. I like going into my back yard (I am fortunate to have a private ravine behind me) sit in the back in summer by the pool surrounded by trees and I feel like I would be up North in Muskoka. Only the lake is missing but to hear birds chirping,see squirrels,rabbits, and even racoons(not so great) and having relatively fresh air, I feel is worth the sacrifice. I go into the city once or twice a week at non rush hour and that suits me.
Of course, I was very fortunate. My work was less than a kilometer from my home so I put 100,000km on my car over the past 10-12 years. I think if I was working in the City, arriving home to the burbs exhausted, and had the neighbours Granny referred to, I too would be in the City.
But I guess I must be "feeling a bit old as well as getting old".
 
An important part of getting more families into condo's, and this is something Adam Vaughan is aware of, is changing the property tax system. The city has already begun this process by divvying it up into things like the Land Transfer Tax, Vehicle Registration Tax, etc., so people can plan what they will pay, but condo owners live in an extremely efficient manner yet get killed on property tax because their valuations are high. When looked at, for every 3% property tax raise, core condo owners are actually paying closer to 15% vs. the suburbs. This needs to change. Servicing one building with 300 units costs the city about 70% less than servicing 300 homes in the core. Compared to the suburbs like Scarborough or Etobicoke or North York - fuggehdaboutit - insanely cheap - and this should be reflected in lower mill rates for condos. It will also encourage more density, services, etc..
 
simuls said:
An important part of getting more families into condo's, and this is something Adam Vaughan is aware of, is changing the property tax system. The city has already begun this process by divvying it up into things like the Land Transfer Tax, Vehicle Registration Tax, etc., so people can plan what they will pay, but condo owners live in an extremely efficient manner yet get killed on property tax because their valuations are high. When looked at, for every 3% property tax raise, core condo owners are actually paying closer to 15% vs. the suburbs. This needs to change. Servicing one building with 300 units costs the city about 70% less than servicing 300 homes in the core. Compared to the suburbs like Scarborough or Etobicoke or North York - fuggehdaboutit - insanely cheap - and this should be reflected in lower mill rates for condos. It will also encourage more density, services, etc..
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I did not realize this point. It makes alot of sense. However, until something approaching the majority of people are living in condos, you can be sure that change like this will likely not occur as those politicians will offend so many people /voters living in houses (the majority) that they would be voted out of office I would believe.
 
It just seems to come down to whether any family would want to live in a 3-bedroom condo if they could just buy a house with more room. How many people actually want to raise their kids in condos? No one at my work that I know of. They all own or buy houses. Never condos. Not if they have kids or plan to. So the trend and preference seems to be houses over condos and I think it's more what a house can offer that condos simply can't.
 
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