Emerald Park Condos (Bazis International, Plaza, Metropia) - Real Estate

[wan28018]

Anyone familiar with "Section 37 Contribution" ?
I just received the Final statement of Adjustment and there it shows the Section 37 with charge amount of whooping $16k.
And now my closing cost is $16k more than what I expected and sums up to around 9% of total value of sale price.

 

[Branny]

What does the breakdown of your costs look like, if you don't mind me asking?

I'm supposed to close on Tuesday and haven't gotten anything from their lawyers yet; it's a little ridiculous to expect someone can scrounge up something like $16k cash with only a couple of days notice...

Same thing happened to my mom. The overall closing fee exceeded our expectation for 17K here too. Don't know exactly how they calculated but according to my lawyer we have agreed to provide some sort of portion for the development of surroundings.

Anyone has detailed idea who we can talk about it or how it is being charged?

 

[Emma Heely]

Hi everyone,

This is my first time posting on this website. I am interested in buying a condo for myself in North York and came across Emerald Park. As I am not in Toronto (I am in Vancouver), I haven't actually visited the building. It seems like there's a lot of uncertainties and criticism for this building (e.g. it not being complete, slow construction, not being able to rent out the stores, FirstService residential sucks). But in terms of the residential side, do you think it is a good place to live in? I noticed that it is substantially pricier compared to other condos in North York, is this premium (retail in the building, future TTC entrance) worth it?

Thanks in advance for any advice!

Emma

 

[Bill123]

Retails not doing bad. Its just the anchor tenants are slow to come in and may not come in at all. After hearing about todays news, around 22/75 stores have been leased 9 months into being handed keys.

Condos here are a steal compared to Vancouver. Residential is doing much better than the Retail portion of the building as they have already been registered and constructed. TTC entrance is not likely to be completed any time soon.

Unique thing about this place is the retail units pay some of the maintenance on the residential units. This is a new building so major problems associated with the building's age have not risen yet and I haven't heard much complaints so far except from the retail unit owners and that complaint about the maintenance worker earlier today... Overall its too early to judge whether this place is a good place to live but I could tell you that from being a retail unit owner that management is almost non existent when you need them even though you pay far more maintenance than residential.

 

[sunnyraytoronto]

Hi everyone,

This is my first time posting on this website. I am interested in buying a condo for myself in North York and came across Emerald Park. As I am not in Toronto (I am in Vancouver), I haven't actually visited the building. It seems like there's a lot of uncertainties and criticism for this building (e.g. it not being complete, slow construction, not being able to rent out the stores, FirstService residential sucks). But in terms of the residential side, do you think it is a good place to live in? I noticed that it is substantially pricier compared to other condos in North York, is this premium (retail in the building, future TTC entrance) worth it?

Thanks in advance for any advice!

Emma

Seriously,.... you really have to ask. You're better off giving all that money to me! At least I'll say thanks with a smile!

EmeraldPark and Tridel's HullmarkCentre tends to be pricier than other area condos because they were marketed as "luxury" condo units,.... the term luxury is really overused,.... but anyways, as yourself,... did Bazis really deliver a luxury condo at EmeraldPark? How was the build quality, construction, material and finishes luxury????

Hmmm,..... EmeraldPark residents started moving in over a year ago (March 2015),..... so how's that coming along? The residential for sale data speaks volume here,.... Emerald Park East Tower (40 storey) has 12 units for sale,.... West Tower (32 storey) has 16 units for sale,... why does shorter tower has more units for sale,... perhaps something to do with shorter ceiling heights,... that's what happens when 8" of ceiling height disappears.
https://www.realtor.ca/Residential/...44141&Latitude=43.7578659057617&CurrentPage=1

Now compare that to the number of condo units on sale at HullmarkCentre,... only one unit in 35 storey South Tower which opened in Dec 2013m,.... and 7 condo units on the 45 storey North Tower which includes 12 storey of office base,... thus that's really 7 condo units from a 33 storey condo tower which opened in Dec 2014 - a few months before EmeraldPark

Now look at how many condo are for sale at all the other condo towers in the area,.... and surely you'll notice EmeraldPark has a very high number of condo units for sale,... why? Some of these condo units been for sale for almost a year!,... never been lived in,.... some of these condo units are from people who changed their minds and want to move out,.... why?

Look at all these condo units have been on the market for so long without buyers,.... or a large number of residents want to move out,.... the real question is why do you want to buy,... and move in,... seriously??!?!?!

If you really like the area and want on-site retail and direct subway access,.... I would recommend Tridel's HullmarkCentre,.... which has 2 direct subway connections - one for each tower,... and the SouthTower subway access also have direct underground connection to EmeraldPark.

Now I don't know what your situation is,... car vs transit (P2 Parking spots going for 50K at EmeraldPark, cause folks hate having to spin 6 times to get out to street level!),.. then there's kids and the school situation,... most condo residents have hard time getting their kids into the local schools which are packed,... some like EmpressWalk have easy time getting into McKee and Earl Haig since their condo Section 37 paid for the rebuild of those schools,.... Generally east side of Yonge is better school district,....

In the Building area of UrbanToronto, there's like 120 pages on EmeraldPark already,... one thing that's clear is all the constant issues that take forever to get resolved,... delays after delays,... why? Because Bazis overpromised and under-delivered and were constantly late,..... Bazis originally promised 2011 delivery,... they started construction in 2011! When they couldn't keep their 2013 delivery, Loblaw's T&T bailed,..... the subway entrance was supposed to be completed over a year ago,... we'll be very luck if it opens before the end of this year! They finally delivered the 1st floor retail area last fall,.. but didn't meet city specification,... now they've been ripping up drywall and ceiling putting in water and drainage pipes,...

Look, Bazis was clearly in over their heads with EmeraldPark,.... they over-promised and under-delivered,.... and they cut corners left and right,... and when they couldn't find corners to cut, they cut ceiling heights!,.... since buyers brought condo units based on square feet/meter of floor space,... not based on cubic volume,....

In the end,.... it's a big chunk of your money,.... so at least, fly to Toronto or get a trusted friend to visit the building and look at the units,.... better take videos

 

[Bill123]

Yesterday we found out the builder did not pay our 2016 taxes. During 2016 occupation and before final closing we paid monthly property taxes to the builder and during final closing we paid about half a year of taxes in a lump sum so the builder could pay it for us. We still received a bill for 2016 omitted/supplementary taxes and when we called the city they told us the builder didn't pay it. Now emails to the builder go ignored. This builder is just a can of worms. They will keep money that is rightfully yours if you don't ask for it back. It's day two and still no response from the builder. I have no idea if other units are even aware of this at all. The money Bazis is not returning to these units run from 5K to 20K per unit.

edit: changed interim to omitted

 

[amnesiajune]

We still received a bill for 2016 interim/supplementary taxes and when we called the city they told us the builder didn't pay it.

The interim property tax bill is for the first half of 2017, and the supplementary property tax bill is in addition to what's already been paid for 2016 (usually issued if your property was reassessed in 2016 and the resulting tax bill is higher than what was originally paid).

 

[Bill123]

The interim property tax bill is for the first half of 2017, and the supplementary property tax bill is in addition to what's already been paid for 2016 (usually issued if your property was reassessed in 2016 and the resulting tax bill is higher than what was originally paid).

My bill says 2016 Omitted/Supplementary tax bill...and its the same amount as my 2017 interim bill, sorry I did not mean to write Interim/Supplementary, I meant to write Omitted/Supplementary

 

[amnesiajune]

Omitted taxes are for when a property has been improved (renovated, newly built, etc.), supplementary taxes are for when the property has appreciated in value more than the average property in its class. If the two bills are the same, that means the 2016 omitted/supplementary tax is a bit more than 50% of the total 2016 tax bill.

 

[Bill123]

No, you don't get what I mean. My entire 2016 taxes are equivalent to my 2017 taxes. The 2016 interim/supplementary bill is the same amount as my 2017 taxes. The builder charged me around 570 a month + hst for an entire year (2016) so they could pay the city after final closing. But they didn't. Now I have to go through all this unnecessary BS just to get my money back. Some units did not even get this bill...because they were not even occupied yet. Even our lawyer says they should return this money.

Note: Even if I did renovate, the value should not go up so much that my property tax doubles...that is just ridiculous! You're telling me that spending 5-10K on renovations can increase my property value by 100%!

 

[Bill123]

Okay guys so I've done some research and thankfully there's another entry on here about this:

http://urbantoronto.ca/forum/thread...-tax-out-of-occupancy-fee-any-examples.13659/

Apparently you have to go after the developer for these fees and they do tend to give it back to you. I hope Bazis pays up.

 

[sunnyraytoronto]

Note: Even if I did renovate, the value should not go up so much that my property tax doubles...that is just ridiculous! You're telling me that spending 5-10K on renovations can increase my property value by 100%!

I don't think the property assessment value increased due to the renovation itself,... but rather the occupancy.

As from my previous post,..... on LCBO and Metro status at EmeraldPark,....
"A recent search on 22 Poyntz Ave returns 2 active file with 2016 tax assessments,... thus, the Metro 2nd floor real estate transaction at EmeraldPark finally did close in 2016 since there's no 2015 tax assessments attached to these files. Since the 2nd floor (22 Poyntz Ave) only has 2 retail units (supermarket & LCBO) I expected two files both under Metro since Metro WAS supposed to be the landlord for both units,... instead I found:
- Metro Ontario Real Estate Ltd with 2016 tax assessment value of $2.694million.
- WonMak Inc with 2016 tax assessment value of $1.1718million
Note: Tax assessment value for unfinished units without occupancy is generally about 2/3 of final assessment value which in turn is generally a bit over half of real market price. That would give the Metro space an estimated market value of about $8million and $3.5million for the WonMak space."
http://urbantoronto.ca/forum/thread...-rosario-varacalli.4829/page-143#post-1174817
http://urbantoronto.ca/forum/thread...-rosario-varacalli.4829/page-143#post-1174818

The LCBO unit finished full renovation in Spring 2015,.... just no stock and staff,.... everything just sitting and collecting dust,.... but their property tax assessment value is only for $1.1718million (extremely low given the size of that unit),.... I'm sure they never got occupancy for that unit,... it's valued like it's still an empty shell,.... that's why the LCBO or WonMak or whoever pays the property tax on that unit could sit and wait,... it's a relatively low property tax!

Furthermore, I think this WonMak Inc that seems to be the new "landlord" of that LCBO unit is really just a holding company that only holds that one unit,.... Why? Because if Metro (original landlord) were to sell that unit within 2 years of closing date (last Fall), they would have to pay higher tax rate on profit of speculative real estate transaction,..... But if someone just wants to buy that LCBO unit within that 2 year time period, they just buy WonMak the holding company - that only holds the LCBO unit and nothing else,... thus Metro and WonMak avoids the higher tax rate.


To give you another example, I know of two identical houses side by side built by same developer,... one new house that sold Summer 2015 (during construction) for about $1.6mil and valuation now around $2.mil but it's tax assessment value is about $1.1mil after occupancy in Summer 2016,.... and it's identical twin house by the same developer built right next door has a tax assessment of about $670K because it's doesn't have occupancy yet.

 

[Bill123]

My 2017 property taxes are the same as the tax in 2016. There has been no increase. For commercial if you don't occupy the unit you don't pay any tax at all.

 

[amnesiajune]

That's why the LCBO or WonMak or whoever pays the property tax on that unit could sit and wait,... it's a relatively low property tax!

Only $2,500/month!

Because if Metro (original landlord) were to sell that unit within 2 years of closing date (last Fall), they would have to pay higher tax rate on profit of speculative real estate transaction

That's not true. There's no "speculation tax" in Toronto, and there hasn't been one since the province's brief speculation tax was repealed in 1978. They'd pay the exact same taxes - land transfer taxes on the sale price and corporate tax on profits - regardless of when they sold it.

 

[sunnyraytoronto]

Only $2,500/month!

That's a deal compared to what the real market value is for that LCBO unit


But your calculation is still way too high,.... almost double! These EmeraldPark Commercial retail units don't pay the 1.23% for education/school tax,.... only subject to about 1.5% commercial rate.
http://www1.toronto.ca/wps/portal/contentonly?vgnextoid=6245ff0e43db1410VgnVCM10000071d60f89RCRD

Notice the School Board Jurisdictions are not checked off since they don't pay the 1.23% Education/School tax

http://urbantoronto.ca/forum/thread...-rosario-varacalli.4829/page-143#post-1174817



Oh and keep in mind Toronto has this "Property Tax Rebate for Vacant Commercial and Industrial Buildings"
http://www1.toronto.ca/wps/portal/contentonly?vgnextoid=df25ff0e43db1410VgnVCM10000071d60f89RCRD

"Under provincially-imposed regulations, Toronto’s property tax rebate program offers building owners a rebate on their property taxes if their units are unoccupied — commercial properties get 30%, while industrial properties get 35%."
http://www.metronews.ca/views/toron...to-scrap-vacant-unit-rebate-matt-elliott.html
http://www.torontosun.com/2017/01/16/tory-vows-to-end-closed-shop-tax-rebate

Which I have a feeling a lot of these EmeraldPark retail-units and office-condo units would qualify for,.....

Thus, at the end of the day,... these empty EmeraldPark retail-units are paying less than 1% of their discounted pre-occupied assessed tax value.

That's not true. There's no "speculation tax" in Toronto, and there hasn't been one since the province's brief speculation tax was repealed in 1978. They'd pay the exact same taxes - land transfer taxes on the sale price and corporate tax on profits - regardless of when they sold it.

My usage of the term "speculative real estate transaction" maybe strong,... and I'm certainly made no reference to a Toronto "speculative tax".

But there are short-term vs long-term Federal Capital Gains Tax to be paid on real estate profit for properties held less than 2 years,.... in NorthYorkCentre were post-war bungalows are constantly sold to Builders who demolished them to build new McMansions,.... on numerous times I've seen new McMansions get built within 1.5 years of bungalow closing date but they don't put it to market under the 2 years holding period,... they wait it out and the Builder will live in the new McMansion for that 6 months or so,... And there's certain Builders in NorthYorkCentre who will constantly move from one brand new McMansion to another brand new McMansion every 6 months or so,..... as these brand new McMansions wait out the 2 years holding period for tax purposes. I joke that these Builders are without a doubt the richest Nomads in the World!