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Election 2009

I'm not sure whether the CPC can survive as a cohesive group post-Harper.

I wish... but the Alliance side of the party knows that they would never have reached government had they not joined with the Conservatives.

My ideal situation would be a Liberal minority with the NDP holding the balance of power to keep the Libs in check.
 
I am not saying its fair, but if you look at how things will work out, if there's any anger on the public's part for having an election it's more likely to be directed away from the incumbent. The only time the public really clamours for an election is when THEY feel that the government is incompetent (through mismanagement or scandal usually). In this case, regardless of how most partisan supporters (like yourself for example) feel, it doesn't seem to be sticking in the public mindset that this government is bad enough that another election is warranted. There's no doubt that some are dissatisfied with the government. But the polls have stayed remarkably consistent. I say remarkable because it's pretty rare that a government polls so consistently through a recession. Like it or not, the biggest change that could occur would be the election of a weak Liberal minority. And I am doubtful that the average Canadian, considers that outcome worthwhile....because trading one minority for another isn't all that big a change for the average Canadian.
Perhaps they'll see it that way. But remember this time last year, as soon as the election was announced, the political parties stopped complaining about the election itself and started campaigning. Unless the election is clearly a grab for power (which this one isn't), the public will just accept there is an election. I don't think the fact there *is* an election will really make a difference on how people vote. Non-political junkies have other things to worry about.

Nevertheless, if Iggy is careful, he should be able to allay any public angst about another election. And he seems set to do that with his double tracked approach (kinda work with the government but keep saying how unworkable it is). But if he screws this up, the risks for him are just as big as that for the PM.
I'm not sure about the last one. Barring Iggy being videotaped reciting the US Pledge of Allegiance *and* Harper rescuing kids from a burning orphanage in Eastern Montreal, the Liberals can only go up (comparing against Dion, this isn't saying much).

Other than that, talk of the CPC imploding is very premature at best. Overall they've succeeded in getting elected, which is something neither the Reform or the PCs could have accomplished alone a decade ago. If they lose, they'll go through the usual in-fighting that political parties go through. It won't be any better or worse than what the Liberals went through during the waning days of the Chretien and post-Martin. But I doubt you'll see them implode. I am fairly sure the conservatives have no desire to hand Canada over for the next decade or two to the Liberals without a fight.
Let's be rational here: the CPC is, essentially, synonymous with Harper. No one can speak, write, or do anything without his permission. He is the glue which holds the party together, and the wish to remake the country is what commands the CPC member loyalty.

If the CPC fails to get a majority, the knives will be out. He gets dumped on the curb. There is no clear successor.

Then what? Ex-PCers grumble that they were ignored during the Harper years, and run a "red tory" candidate for leader. Ex Alliance/Reform people grumble that Harper was a sellout to conservative principles, and get a hard-right candidate for leader. The party is divided and distracted from events in Ottawa. Once one side wins, the other side quits the party en masse. Iggy (either as PM or Opposition leader) decides to have an election in, say, 2011. We're back in 1993.

I'm not saying this will definitely happen, but it should be remembered that the CPC is not a monolithic block no matter how its leader acts.

As for your point about small c conservatives not willing to hand Canada to the Liberals, look south. After Obama's election the Republican Party became increasingly extreme and dominated by old white male cranks who fantasise about Reagan, which is not how you win the White House. They are not willing to hand the White House over to (relatively) left wing Democrats for decades, but they are on that exact path.
 
I haven't quite figured out the strategy of the Tories yet.

Day 1 - make the kind of fire and brimstone speech that scares middle of the road voters away.

Day 2 - announce that the deficit is up another $5-bilion to $55-billion ... risking all sorts of criticism about their promise less than a year ago not to run a deficit (can't blame the entire thing on the stimulus funding forced by the Liberals. The entire program is only $4-billion - and they aren't spending it all in this budget year ... payments stretch out to 2011!

I just don't get the strategy ...
 
well the thing is if the Liberals get control, I can see them keeping it for a while until they have to many scandals and what not.

That is why the Tories will do anything to make sure the Liberals do not win because you can kiss power away for a while.

I would expect a lot of anger from the left in Canada will really cool down if the Liberals are in charge.

However anger from the right especially from the west is going to explode.

Expect renewed calls for Alberta's Separation...
 
this commercial is out in full force again:

michael ignatieff - just visiting.

they're running this commercial soo many times i'm beginning to think michael ignatieff is solely responsible for keeping the tourism industry afloat in these tough economic times.

kudos mike! imagine what he can do for other sectors of the economy if elected! :D
 
Let's be rational here: the CPC is, essentially, synonymous with Harper. No one can speak, write, or do anything without his permission. He is the glue which holds the party together, and the wish to remake the country is what commands the CPC member loyalty.

If the CPC fails to get a majority, the knives will be out. He gets dumped on the curb. There is no clear successor.

Then what? Ex-PCers grumble that they were ignored during the Harper years, and run a "red tory" candidate for leader. Ex Alliance/Reform people grumble that Harper was a sellout to conservative principles, and get a hard-right candidate for leader. The party is divided and distracted from events in Ottawa. Once one side wins, the other side quits the party en masse. Iggy (either as PM or Opposition leader) decides to have an election in, say, 2011. We're back in 1993.

I'm not saying this will definitely happen, but it should be remembered that the CPC is not a monolithic block no matter how its leader acts.

As for your point about small c conservatives not willing to hand Canada to the Liberals, look south. After Obama's election the Republican Party became increasingly extreme and dominated by old white male cranks who fantasise about Reagan, which is not how you win the White House. They are not willing to hand the White House over to (relatively) left wing Democrats for decades, but they are on that exact path.

Good points but I do think there's more than a element of wishful thinking here. Most political parties have factions within them. The Conservatives are no exception. Having spent a decade in the wilderness precisely because the factions of the party could not work together, I don't think they'll want a repeat of it. I can see some paralysis as you've suggested. But I highly doubt a big split is coming. I can't see it being worse than the Liberal in-fighting during the Chretien/Martin feud. Eventually, one faction will win and the other will clamp down for the greater good. That's the circle of life in politics.

Comparisons to US Republicans are ridiculous. The Democrats today are basically what the Republicans were a decade or two ago. That's forced the Republicans off the deep end as they've had to shift even further to the right. There's no danger of that happening here. The Liberals aren't going to shift any further right than they are today. It leaves plenty of room for a party on the right, if it can keep its act together.

And it's not going to be an easy ride for the Liberals either. They were basically reduced a party of the TMV last election. Their claim to being a national party has limits if they can't capture more rural votes.
 
Oh yeah the loss in rural support was imo caused by the Liberals gradual shift towards the left from the centre after the Chretien years.


Chretien ran against a crappy opposition but by running in the centre he really was able to leave the opposition scrambling.



Even so imagine this...
130 Tories
105 Liberals
30 NDP
45 Bloc

So yeah the Liberals could form a coalition with the NDP and cause another great political crisis.

Lol Imagine this, Tories win the election, just before Parliament resumes, Liberal announce coalition and will defeat the Tories at any moment.

Lol really many have argued majority govts are bad but come on admit it, this is just to much!! :mad:
 
Keith: what did the reform wing of the CPC get out of their time in office? Sweet f--- all.
 
Keith: what did the reform wing of the CPC get out of their time in office? Sweet f--- all.

They got power. They have nobody but themselves to blame if they didn't accomplish as much as they wanted.

Nevertheless, I think talk of blame is futile. Are you seriously buying that the right after spending the better part of a decade trying to unite is going to fracture after one bad election? I think anybody who puts forward that kind of analysis as serious thought is putting putting their best partisan foot forward before serious analysis. Wishful thinking should not pass as serious analysis. I can agree that they'll probably go through some gut wrenching political machinations when Harper leaves (what party wouldn't when it loses a leader, especially one as controversial?). But I think suggestions of a collapse are pretty far fetched.
 
No, I don't think the CPC will dissolve. I think any patience for the 'let's just govern on the left for a little while longer, get a majority, and then we'll get what we want' strategy will disappear. See Ontario's PC Party. I could see the next CPC leader being further to the right.
 
However the leaves the floor open for a centrist Liberal to take the stage.

Like Tim Hudak will be popular with the right but most of the centre and the left think he is the 2nd coming of Harris...
 
Government to run deficits until 2015: Flaherty

Link here.
CTV.ca News Staff
Finance Minister Jim Flaherty said the federal government will run deficits until at least 2015 -- two years longer than originally forecast.

He said it will be a tough road to getting Canada black in the black, but added the Conservatives will not raises taxes or cut transfer payments to the provinces.

Flaherty also said Thursday afternoon that the deficit for 2009 will be over $5 billion more than originally thought -- moving up to a projected $55.9 billion, from $50.2 billion.

While Canada is showing signs of a fragile economic recovery, returning to balanced budgets won't be easy, he told an audience in Victoria, B.C.

"It will require decisions of government that won't always be popular or pain-free," he said in a prepared speech. "It will require a lot of saying 'no' to pet projects and special interests."

The Conservatives laid out their last blueprint to balance the budget in January. Under that plan, they pledged to eliminate the deficit within five years.

But the Canadian economy shrank at an annualized rate of 6.1 per cent during the first quarter of 2009, its largest contraction in decades. That made a five-year timeline to eliminate the deficit look less feasible.

Ottawa's deficit is expected to be down to $5.2 billion for the fiscal year 2014-2015.

Flaherty also called the Liberal party's push for an election bad timing as we continue to operate in an uncertain economy.

"Now is not the time to put economic recovery at risk with political opportunism. This is not the time to create instability out of narrow, partisan self-interest," he said.

"This is not the time to play political games."

Liberal Leader Michael Ignatieff said the latest numbers are yet another example of the Conservatives misstating the facts.

"Mr. Flaherty has a credibility problem," said Ignatieff on Thursday, adding that one year ago, the Tories were predicting a small federal surplus.

But that number swelled to $32 billion and again to $50 billion as the government responding to the growing economic crisis last fall.

Still, Ignatieff predicted that Flaherty will again revise his predictions.

In reference to Flaherty's statement that the deficit will be eliminated in 2015, Ignatieff offered a simple rebuttal: "If pigs can fly."

Meanwhile, NDP MP Thomas Mulcair said that the Conservatives have betrayed their own principles by overspending.

"We now have a structural deficit in Canada," he told CTV'S Power Play, adding that the Tories have created "the highest deficit in Canadian history."
Love the irony of the NDP criticising the Cons for betraying their own principles for running deficits while pushing for more deficit spending themselves when the recession hit last fall. Gotta love politics.

Can either the NDP or Liberals really use deficits as an election issue with any effectiveness?
 
Can either the NDP or Liberals really use deficits as an election issue with any effectiveness?

Maybe by arguing that the surplus was 'squandered' before the recession hit -- meaning a higher deficit because there was no surplus to pay off at least a part of the stimulus.
 

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